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I've asked this question a few times never with an answer. To be fair, I think most people installed this at the same time as the FMIC since they both required taking the nose off, which makes it hard to say if this did anything beyond just the FMIC.

No offense to the sponsor, but I can't see how this design makes much of a difference and I suspect that the reason so many people bought it was because they were taking the nose off for the FMIC already.

But I hope I am wrong. I have my FMIC sitting on my garage floor waiting until a warm weekend day to install and I was hoping to hear a good recommendation for the before I do it so I can have reason to buy it in time for the install.
 
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I've asked this question a few times never with an answer. To be fair, I think most people installed this at the same time as the FMIC since they both required taking the nose off, which makes it hard to say if this did anything beyond just the FMIC.

No offense to the sponsor, but I can't see how this design makes much of a difference and I suspect that the reason so many people bought it was because they were taking the nose off for the FMIC already.

But I hope I am wrong. I have my FMIC sitting on my garage floor waiting until a warm weekend day to install and I was hoping to hear a good recommendation for the before I do it so I can have reason to buy it in time for the install.
SludgeFactory have you read this thread? http://www.fusionsportforums.com/fo...box-steeda-cai-under-hood-temps-iat-iat2.html If not I would recommend grabbing a beverage of your choice and giving it a read.

Here is what I know.

Our air intake systems are pretty bad. No direct air path, very restrictive factory airbox, subject to heat soak and slow recovery.

The Big Mouth gives us a direct fresh air path to the Factory Airbox/CAI, forces air into the airbox at speed.

I have installed only the first part of the Big Mouth as I am waiting to complete install when I do my FMIC. With that said I have seen lower IAT numbers, faster recovery of IAT numbers (heat soak), lower IAT2 numbers. So does it work IMHO yes. Did I get a seat of the pants boost in power no. Does it improve performance again IMHO yes.

Some may be confused by my No to seat of pants and Yes to improving performance. That is because to me there is a lot more to performance than just increased HP/TQ numbers which I am told by others that it has helped with their 1/4 mile times.

Having personally tested a lot of stuff with our intakes, filters, airboxes, under hood temps etc. having an item that helps provide cooler fresh air to the engine is just what these cars need.
 

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SludgeFactory have you read this thread? http://www.fusionsportforums.com/fo...box-steeda-cai-under-hood-temps-iat-iat2.html If not I would recommend grabbing a beverage of your choice and giving it a read.

Here is what I know.

Our air intake systems are pretty bad. No direct air path, very restrictive factory airbox, subject to heat soak and slow recovery.

The Big Mouth gives us a direct fresh air path to the Factory Airbox/CAI, forces air into the airbox at speed.

I have installed only the first part of the Big Mouth as I am waiting to complete install when I do my FMIC. With that said I have seen lower IAT numbers, faster recovery of IAT numbers (heat soak), lower IAT2 numbers. So does it work IMHO yes. Did I get a seat of the pants boost in power no. Does it improve performance again IMHO yes.

Some may be confused by my No to seat of pants and Yes to improving performance. That is because to me there is a lot more to performance than just increased HP/TQ numbers which I am told by others that it has helped with their 1/4 mile times.

Having personally tested a lot of stuff with our intakes, filters, airboxes, under hood temps etc. having an item that helps provide cooler fresh air to the engine is just what these cars need.
Simple, for a single dyno run, the entire intake track can absorb the heat but for real world driving, the directed cold air helps with recovery.

Also it provides additional separation from the radiant heat from the radiator and the intake. So when your waiting for the tree to change, your not sucking in warm air.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

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I have skimmed through that thread before looking for the very answer of if this Big Mouth provides any benefit. I did not see it there. You did an excellent job on there identifying the problem and I agree 100% with you about the weak factory intake. I may be remembering wrong, but I thought your decreased IAT was a result of the better Steeda box (I wouldn't call it a true CAI until after the Big Mouth is added to it) and couldn't be directly attributed to the Big Mouth itself.

I agree this car needs a better intake, but when I look at the design of THIS particular product (Velossa, not Steeda, that's a different conversation), I don't see how it is much better. The stock intake and this Velossa product both get their air over top of the radiator. The path of the Velossa doesn't look all that much bigger and still has the same bends. Also, when I look at how they put the mouth in front of the radiator, yes it gets cooler air that way, but the amount of air available to it is decreased. It's functionally a smaller mouth.

But I admit I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject. At some point I'll read through your thread again in case I'm remembering things wrong.

I am not bashing this product. I am open to buying it, I just wanted someone to really recommend it first and up until your post no one chimed in. I've also been kind of waiting for something better. I think it's a good design, but I think there still a lot of unexplored options.
 

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I have skimmed through that thread before looking for the very answer of if this Big Mouth provides any benefit. I did not see it there. You did an excellent job on there identifying the problem and I agree 100% with you about the weak factory intake. I may be remembering wrong, but I thought your decreased IAT was a result of the better Steeda box (I wouldn't call it a true CAI until after the Big Mouth is added to it) and couldn't be directly attributed to the Big Mouth itself.

I agree this car needs a better intake, but when I look at the design of THIS particular product (Velossa, not Steeda, that's a different conversation), I don't see how it is much better. The stock intake and this Velossa product both get their air over top of the radiator. The path of the Velossa doesn't look all that much bigger and still has the same bends. Also, when I look at how they put the mouth in front of the radiator, yes it gets cooler air that way, but the amount of air available to it is decreased. It's functionally a smaller mouth.

But I admit I'm not the most knowledgeable on the subject. At some point I'll read through your thread again in case I'm remembering things wrong.

I am not bashing this product. I am open to buying it, I just wanted someone to really recommend it first and up until your post no one chimed in. I've also been kind of waiting for something better. I think it's a good design, but I think there still a lot of unexplored options.

Hello! I will do my best to answer your questions.

The design objectives of the big mouth were laid out in the following manner.

1. Low pressure drop design
2. Maximum pressure recovery (more on this later)
3. Ease of installation
4. Aesthetically pleasing


The intent of the big mouth and intakes like it (ram air, high pressure air etc...) is to take the air pressure that builds up in the front of the car and 'force feed' it to the engine. This force fed air is regular ambient air, but because the car is moving 60 mph relative to the air, the air is essentially being pushing into the airbox.

This pushing force is what we engineers called dynamic pressure. Pressure is pressure, but the source of this type of pressure is motion (hence dynamic pressure). This newfound inlet pressure only goes up very very little in the real world, on the order of tenths of a psi. This small increase in pressure, is enough to send the ECU signals that in fact the car is in a higher pressure atmosphere (more air is available).


One perfect example of this is when at different altitudes where air pressure differs. Cars that drag race in colorado vs miami, are going to be at a disadvantage due to the lower available air pressure at higher altitudes. This type of air pressure I just described in the colorado vs miami scenario is what we call 'static pressure', it is just the available air pressure at rest, if you didnt move. Since the stock vehicles dont have any form of ram air, or pressure assist intake, the inlet air pressure to the engine will always be local static pressure and will always be dependent on your altitude or DA.

The big mouth adds a component of pressure (literally just adds this, its an addition equation) that is dynamic pressure.

Static pressure at rest + Dynamic pressure (if any) = total pressure (total pressure is what the 'engine sees')

Example: With a well designed ram air duct, the engine will 'see' the miami air pressure, but is actually in colorado, makes sense?

The primary intent of the big mouth intake is to add pressure to the engine inlet, the colder air intake is a nice byproduct, but is not the sole intent. Having a higher inlet pressure has a profound effect on engine performance, as does lowering inlet temps, which the big mouth does both well.

You also should have nothing to worry about with pressure drop of the big mouth. It is probably the least restrictive part of the intake (i wouldnt even call it a restriction and here is why). As soon as you start moving, the net 'pressure drop' is in fact the opposite; a bonus in air pressure, not a net loss. So your pressure drop would actually be negative (a negative pressure drop in this case would be positive pressure added to system).


If you have ever seen a high end car up close, look at the engine and look at where the engine pulls air from. ALWAYS, it will be a front facing ram duct of some kind. In fact you dont even need to look at a high end car, look at a BMW or AMG Mercedes, those engines come stock with high pressure inlets.

I just applied the concept to Fords, since Ford doesnt implement it, and doesnt need to for a car at this price point and performance level.

I hope this clarifies the topic!
 

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Thank you for your contributions. I completely understand why it's a good system, but that's not the same as showing it to have more air flow than stock. I think there are just too many immeasurables for me to be convinced without some flow data.

Is not like the stock inlet isn't affected by dynamic pressure. It's right over the radiator. The ram pressure here should be even higher here than out in front of it. Plus it has access to a larger column of air.

But it's hotter air, more air loss, and arguably more restrictive. So it has it's pluses and minuses. Too many variables to know your product clearly makes more air flow.

I'm not trying to be the bad guy or argue though. I just want to motivate someone to show data, or at least give me an glowing recommendation.
 

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So here is your factory air pathway. There is no direct air path, the incoming air just fills the open cavity between the radiator support and cover via the small oddly shaped hole you can see bottom center of image.




The big mouth pathway provides a direct path to the airbox. Provides cooler fresh air to the airbox and inlet hole is opened up to accommodate the larger inlet path section.



The restriction in the factory airbox design is with out a doubt the inlet tube which is narrow and twisted.



The Big Mouth under way is a CPAP for our cars. LOL
 
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Thank you for your contributions. I completely understand why it's a good system, but that's not the same as showing it to have more air flow than stock. I think there are just too many immeasurables for me to be convinced without some flow data.

Is not like the stock inlet isn't affected by dynamic pressure. It's right over the radiator. The ram pressure here should be even higher here than out in front of it. Plus it has access to a larger column of air.

But it's hotter air, more air loss, and arguably more restrictive. So it has it's pluses and minuses. Too many variables to know your product clearly makes more air flow.

I'm not trying to be the bad guy or argue though. I just want to motivate someone to show data, or at least give me an glowing recommendation.
No problem, I love explaining things :)

The stock system does not have the same air pressure contribution from the available dynamic pressure. The air stagnates in front of the radiator and doesnt have any flow guidance, this causes unwanted pressure drop. By the time the high speed air gets to the inlet of the airbox, its all back to static pressure or nearly back to static pressure. And, if you're unlucky, it could be less than static pressure (vacuum, with a poorly designed inlet and radiator shroud for example, I have seen this before too).

Ideally, you have 60, 70 or 80 mph air (however fast you are going) moving in the opposite direction relative to the car. You want to keep this air still going at 80 mph by the time it hits your airbox, this is the essence of the big mouth. Keep the air at high velocity to recover the dynamic pressure, fully. Velocity is what the key ingredient is, thats all we have to work with, hence the company name :)


Measuring airflow data is not easy, in my case, it requires the car to be moving since that is the whole point of the product (Accelerating at WOT for extended periods of time in the upper gears) and the test has to be done back to back on the same day. It gets tricky because I live in a very urban area and it has to be kept safe (drag strips are also a good place to do it but we do shift into 5th gear sometimes so there just isnt enough stretch).

This is an example of one of our BIG MOUTH tests done on a Focus ST, measuring airmass in lbm/min.
The delta is an average of 0.43 lbm/min increase in air mass flow, about a 4-5 hp increase in 3rd and 4th gear if you equate 0.1lbm/min to about 1 hp which is a typical rule of thumb.




When we get around to doing these pulls with our local Fusion, you will be the first to know :)
 

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So here is your factory air pathway. There is no direct air path, the incoming air just fills the open cavity between the radiator support and cover via the small oddly shaped hole you can see bottom center of image.

That "oddly shaped hole" in the radiator support can be opened up VERY easily with a bare hacksaw blade. You can really increase the size in just a few minutes (after you get the cover off). Just take your time. I did it to mine a while back but can't honestly say if it improved anything. I did no before or after testing, as I felt any possible gains would be negligible.

I did take pictures and will post them when I get the time.
 

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How much of the radiator support has to be cut out? Messing with a support structure still kinds weirds me out. Anyone have pictures?
 

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From the installation instructions...





I looked and it doesn't cause and issue with support that I can see.
 
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Did anyone try making their cuts from the top without removing the bumper?

TwinForce_Fusion (from YouTube) showed that he was able to make his cuts albeit larger than needed and install from the top:


He appears to have more than enough room to pivot the entire ram from the top. Not sure if making such a large hole would have negatives but it should all be hidden with the cover anyway.

I'm comfortable making precise cuts with a Dremel to fit the ram from the top if possible but wanted to see if anyone in the forum did this successfully.
 

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You still have to cut out the support where it sits in the grille area.
 

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You still have to cut out the support where it sits in the grille area.
Shouldn't the support plastic behind the grill still be accessible from a cut made above it? I would imagine I could use a knife, clippers, or even a Dremel to make the cuts through the hole right?
 

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Nope. The top is fiberglass. Unless you're cutting a gigantic hole up top just to avoid removing the bumper you need to pull the bumper.
 
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And unless you're quadruple jointed I don't see how you'll save any time or effort by going from the top only.
 
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Velossa tech is a great company and so is Dan Becker. I was talking to him about things for the Focus before I got into the Fusion. He always took the time to chat and talk over things about possible products. I recommend his products highly.
 
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