[BOT_ROCKET]

So I've been looking into this digital leash theory some more, and it is definitely not just a conspiracy.

Some light reading/watching for those that are interested. This removes any doubt in my head about this digital leash.

Electronic Throttle Control

Torque Management-Please Explain - Ford Mustang Forum

Torque management education please. - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

2013 torque management - Mustang Evolution

 

[JaredC01]

I was getting off of the highway tonight in standard D, and punched it all the way to the floor and... nothing. It slowly sped up like it had a yacht being pulled behind it. Decided to throw it into sport mode on the way home, even poked at a Lexus a bit. Absolutely no comparison, sport always had power when I hit the go pedal. Not sure what the difference is with engine performance in sport mode, but it's definitely there.

For those interested, the Lexus chirped off a stop light he was next to me at and starting pulling off (no forewarning or engine revving, just a little fun at a light). I mashed the go button, head thrown back in my seat, and very quickly put him behind me. Shortly after putting him behind me, I resumed my "normal" drive home. No speed limits exceeded, just got up to them quickly. He seemed impressed, then he turned off and went the other way.

 

[RockinZ28]

I was getting off of the highway tonight in standard D, and punched it all the way to the floor and... nothing. It slowly sped up like it had a yacht being pulled behind it. Decided to throw it into sport mode on the way home, even poked at a Lexus a bit. Absolutely no comparison, sport always had power when I hit the go pedal. Not sure what the difference is with engine performance in sport mode, but it's definitely there.

For those interested, the Lexus chirped off a stop light he was next to me at and starting pulling off (no forewarning or engine revving, just a little fun at a light). I mashed the go button, head thrown back in my seat, and very quickly put him behind me. Shortly after putting him behind me, I resumed my "normal" drive home. No speed limits exceeded, just got up to them quickly. He seemed impressed, then he turned off and went the other way.

That's good to know. Hopefully in S mode it downshifts so it's in the powerband, which it should be able to find with an A6. Know the few times I've hit it from a roll at around 35mph in D, it hasn't downshifted, which was really disappointing. But haven't messed with S, and don't care for the paddles either.

Know in my A4 z28's, there were certain "dead" zones where it would not downshift. You just hang your head in shame as a way slower car pulls on you while you're stuck down at 2500rpms lol. Sigh, do miss that instant power available from the 6-speed manual & a mechanical throttle body.

 

[OX1]

That's good to know. Hopefully in S mode it downshifts so it's in the powerband, which it should be able to find with an A6. Know the few times I've hit it from a roll at around 35mph in D, it hasn't downshifted, which was really disappointing. But haven't messed with S, and don't care for the paddles either.

Know in my A4 z28's, there were certain "dead" zones where it would not downshift. You just hang your head in shame as a way slower car pulls on you while you're stuck down at 2500rpms lol. Sigh, do miss that instant power available from the 6-speed manual & a mechanical throttle body.

Wonder if a pedalmax would help, since there are no tunes out yet.

 

[BOT_ROCKET]

Wonder if a pedalmax would help, since there are no tunes out yet.

Nope. I already looked into that thinking it might force the throttle open when I want it open, but that's not how it works. All the "pedal" things do is alter the pedal signal to the pcm to make the car think you are pressing the pedal more than you are at part throttle. Once you hit full throttle it sends the same signal as it would without the pedal booster. It doesn't alter what the computer does with the throttle plate at full throttle.

 

[OX1]

Nope. I already looked into that thinking it might force the throttle open when I want it open, but that's not how it works. All the "pedal" things do is alter the pedal signal to the pcm to make the car think you are pressing the pedal more than you are at part throttle. Once you hit full throttle it sends the same signal as it would without the pedal booster. It doesn't alter what the computer does with the throttle plate at full throttle.

Yeah, doesn't do anything for top end power. Although the 6 speed in my 2.0 AWD can be a hair lazy overall, it has never not downshifted. I got a pedalmax as the 2.0 off idle, is so lazy, it perks it up a decent amount. Was thinking a higher rate of throttle change that you can't duplicate, no matter how fast you mash your foot, could help..................

 

[drbob1]

This is exactly the problem we had with the MazdaSpeed6: drive by wire meant that the engine would choose what kind of throttle opening to give you in any specific situation, and it wasn't consistent and it often robbed the car of performance. I won't be buying a FuSport unless this gets solved! It'll just irritate the heck out of me, again!

 

[Frizz2112]

Did the Mazdaspeed guys ever figure out a fix? Wouldn't a tune straighten it out? I know it would suck if you're not going to tune but, I'm gonna tune anyway. BTW, I have yet to experience this. Even in D when I hit the pedal, she goes. I admit I usually roll into it. I have experienced some strange transmission behavior. That does bug me.

Yeah, mine hasn't let me down like that either. It's certainly more responsive in Sport, but I've never stomped the gas in D and not gotten a healthy dose of power. This transmission isn't perfect, but is much more sorted than the 9 speed in our new Pilot. I realize that's not an ideal comparison vehicle, but that transmission gets flat out confused all the time, especially at low speeds. Those wishing for more gears should beware; it's all a waste if they don't get the programming right.

 

[your_cousin_vinny]

I realize that's not an ideal comparison vehicle, but that transmission gets flat out confused all the time, especially at low speeds. Those wishing for more gears should beware; it's all a waste if they don't get the programming right.

I 100% agree. My mom's 300 and my brother's sierra both have 8 speeds of some kind and it seems like they're never ready or capable. The 300 isnt quite as bad, it hunts a lot but is generally smooth, the sierra hunts around and shifts rather harshly once it finds something. Meanwhile, my dad's year-older sierra with a 6 speed is pretty much flawless in its operation. And on days when its not acting up, the 6 speed in my Five Hundred is quite nicely sorted out as well.

 

[drbob1]

That wasn't the only problem with the MS6, so I felt like I needed the power train warranty. It apparently got solved eventually with a tune, but it took more than the 5 years I owned the car to get it right! Hopefully the Ford guys will get it done quicker (since they'll sell more FuSports in a month than they did in two years of the MS6). But the economics still bother me: $38k for the FS with electronics and drivers aids, then a tune and loss of the power train warranty; or $40k for an S4 with 20k miles on it, no tune needed and warranty out to 100k miles?

 

[BOT_ROCKET]

Did the Mazdaspeed guys ever figure out a fix? Wouldn't a tune straighten it out? I know it would suck if you're not going to tune but, I'm gonna tune anyway. BTW, I have yet to experience this. Even in D when I hit the pedal, she goes. I admit I usually roll into it. I have experienced some strange transmission behavior. That does bug me.

My understanding from what I've read is that the torque management limits torque output in low gears (1st mainly) and during shifts. If you watch the video with the Corvette, you can see how the stock throttle opens slowly and never fully opens while the tuned one opens fully right away. That's what I feel when I launch from a stop. If you launch your car, you will feel it hesitate momentarily before it really gets going, and even after it gets going, its still not giving it all it's got. Like I've mentioned previously, first gear should be able to break the tires loose with that much torque twisting fairly narrow all season tires.

Don't get me wrong. It still hauls. I Don't think the TM is limiting it to 50% like I saw some of the other ones on the tuner sites, but I have no doubt that it's holding back.

 

[elronino]

I 100% agree. My mom's 300 and my brother's sierra both have 8 speeds of some kind and it seems like they're never ready or capable. The 300 isnt quite as bad, it hunts a lot but is generally smooth, the sierra hunts around and shifts rather harshly once it finds something. Meanwhile, my dad's year-older sierra with a 6 speed is pretty much flawless in its operation. And on days when its not acting up, the 6 speed in my Five Hundred is quite nicely sorted out as well.

We have a 16' Sierra and the 8 speed is POOP... clunks around and isn't consistent during city driving. Highway is a different story. I'm a little disappointed... I do have some friends on the inside at GM in the propulsion division... and they say "We know there is a problem and are trying to work on it... it isn't software related"

 

[elronino]

My understanding from what I've read is that the torque management limits torque output in low gears (1st mainly) and during shifts. If you watch the video with the Corvette, you can see how the stock throttle opens slowly and never fully opens while the tuned one opens fully right away. That's what I feel when I launch from a stop. If you launch your car, you will feel it hesitate momentarily before it really gets going, and even after it gets going, its still not giving it all it's got. Like I've mentioned previously, first gear should be able to break the tires loose with that much torque twisting fairly narrow all season tires.

Don't get me wrong. It still hauls. I Don't think the TM is limiting it to 50% like I saw some of the other ones on the tuner sites, but I have no doubt that it's holding back.

I experience the same thing. Having done several stop light drag races... mostly alone.... (that's a different story) and I can say I miss that neck jolting tire chirping launch. It almost seems to just give you about a 3-5 foot roll out then allow the car to open up.

A part of me doesn't mind this as it saves rubber and doesn't draw attention in unwanted scenarios. With that said, if they removed the TM when in S mode, that probably would have made great sense.

 

[TXUSAFVET]

I know this is probably good across forums, but despite the *general* opinion that the paddles are, well a bit of a pain *I have small hands*, I'm using them more and more because of that very feeling of watching a mini-van, with a mom on her cell-phone, be in a quicker hurry than me. There are 2 cars hidden with the FS, and its like my ex of 23 years, you just can never be sure which one you will wake up beside. Roll down the windows, crank up the tunes (yes, this is for the placebo effect) hit that S button and put your hands on those buttons. Never let those rpms go below 3000 or so, and she is the girl you married! Had to nunge a 5.0 that didn't realize I was not driving his Mom's Fusion (I have 2 2015 Titaniums and would never be in that position in those). It was back and forth fun with way too much rush hour traffic but he took some extra time to look at the back of the car to see wtf was going on. I don't like that the car won't shift as fast as my fingers can move the paddles, but with the stereo blasting, what the **** to my fingers know!

 

[elronino]

Yeah, the paddles are a little bit of a let down, but do provide some great excitement. It's almost funny when I pull up next to people and they give me the look like..."So what, it's a fusion".... then tailpipes.

I've gotten fairly aggressive with the paddles on back country roads, and can say when kept above 2500, she responds like a college girl after a few shots.

 

[your_cousin_vinny]

she responds like a college girl after a few shots.

sooooo... slow, sloppy and uncoordinated? lol

 

[yoseft]

Yeah the old racer in Me. I've already blew away a few of those that wanted to go a little bit. My Sport seems to have plenty of get up and go in sport mode or not sport mode. Then again one minor advantage is I live in the country, farm area. We have a gas station here that sells non-ethanol fuel for the farm equipment. They have 93 octane and my sport just seems to love it Without 10 % or 15% ethanol at 93 octane. No great quarter-mile races, just a little street fun for short durations, the Sport pulls like there's no tomorrow.

 

[Vert]

Hopefully when tunes are available, you will be able to have different TM settings between sport mode and D. That's how my Pontiac G8 was tuned, but for some reason I couldn't get tuner to tune my mustang that way.

 

[BOT_ROCKET]

I decided to try the Android Torque App and wanted to share some initial findings. Upon stomping the gas pedal, the throttle opens to ~80%, then closes to ~45% and fluctuates between 45-60% for the remainder of the run. These flutuations are quick. I'd say about 3-5 cycles through third gear. The throttle NEVER opens past 85%. Ever.

 

[dogmush]

This kinda reminds me of when the GTR first came out. You could turn on launch control to get the advertised 0-60's, but if you did you'd likely shred the trans and would void the warranty.

Ford gives the Fusion Sport 325hp/380ft-lbs (Maybe a tic more on a dyno) but you can't actually USE it to accelerate the car. Sure you can probably turn it off with a tune, but that will definitely kill the powertrain warranty. As for the drive train? I can't think that Ford would have done this unless the prototypes were shredding something. The only other reasonable explanation I can think of was they built this car, put it on the road for testing and discovered it spanked and/or was too close to the SHO and Mustang, so corporate dialed it's performance back a little. But that seems far-fetched, as those cars aren't really competing with each other.

On the bright side:

If the Fusion Sport can do mid low 5 sec 0-60's at 80% throttle, using the whole engine aught to be pretty dang quick. (If the drive train doesn't explode)