Ford Fusion V6 Sport Forum banner

281 - 300 of 307 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
I know there are a lot of reasons to not like the Borla, in light of the "cat back vs axle back" debate, but that is really internet here-say in my opinion.
If you just look at the internet prices at face value, the Borla is < 1K. A custom solution with MagnaFlow is around $400.
Well, as a guy that works for a company that actually manufactures stuff, I can tell you that creating a ready to sell exact fit solution that meets all of the standards that automobile parts manufacturers are held to, costs a buttload more than having your local muffler shop fab up a one off solution with a Magnaflow universal fit product. The results will probably reflect that too, in spite of claims. I think I'm gonna order a Borla, because I like the sound, and I like something that has been designed by engineers that design that stuff for a living, and not some guy at the local muffler shop. Not that I have anything against those guys. They do great work and can fit a can on your car. I'm just trying to point out that there is a justifiable difference in the price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
"...I'm just trying to point out that there is a justifiable difference in the price."
A $600 price difference, to use your own numbers? I don't think so. I'm one of those guys who had a local muffler shop fab up an axle-back using Magnaflow canister-style mufflers, and I'd put my $350 system against a $1000 Borla system any day of the week. The money I saved was enough to get a tune and cross-drilled rotors.

Does Borla make a good product? Absolutely. Is it worth it on our particular cars? I don't think so. But hey, it's your money, do what you want...
 
  • Like
Reactions: dbsimms63

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
A $600 price difference, to use your own numbers? I don't think so. I'm one of those guys who had a local muffler shop fab up an axle-back using Magnaflow canister-style mufflers, and I'd put my $350 system against a $1000 Borla system any day of the week. The money I saved was enough to get a tune and cross-drilled rotors.

Does Borla make a good product? Absolutely. Is it worth it on our particular cars? I don't think so. But hey, it's your money, do what you want...
I'm glad you are happy with your local fab guy and the results. A lot of people do not have the luxury of a "good fab guy", and how good is your fab guy? Probably really good and your solution is ****. I believe an engineered and tested solution is worth some extra bucks. We can agree to disagree, but don't disparage me for spending money on something that I think costs more because it takes more engineering to produce.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,506 Posts
That's where everyone's different... I agree with mike d, I'd gladly pay the $1000 for a stainless steel engineered exhaust specifically designed for my car rather than having some shop "give it a go" on their own. The Borla is the only exhaust I've heard that I remotely like on these cars (no offense to anyone, it's just personal taste after all).

My issue with the Borla (aside from the poor customer relations) is that I want a cat-back, just like they have for nearly every other model they support... and for some reason our axle back is the same price as all other cat-backs. The Explorer even has a full cat-back for about $100 less than our axle-back! If it was even $700 like most of their other axle-backs, I'd feel mostly OK. Not $1100. It's not about the overall price vs. custom, just the overall price compared to their own other products.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Look, here's the deal... Borla spent a lot of money doing 3D cad modeling to fit the Sport, analyzing flow rates, pipe diameters and bends to make it sound the best they could without drone. That costs a lot of engineering development bucks. How many have they sold? Well if this forum is any indication, close to zero. It cost more because it is a bigger investment on their part, that they hope to recoup in sales after the engineering is done. If you think you can get a great sounding, great fit, low drone solution with a local muffler shop and aftermarket parts, well, MAYBE you can, and MAYBE, you did. But there is a high probability that your solution drones more, robs horsepower, and... well, at least you saved money.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,506 Posts
I'm not getting a custom exhaust made for my car, ever. I understand engineering and how that business works very well.

If they threw some extra stainless steel tubing with an exhaust gasket & connector, they had a lot of people willing to give them the $1000. They decided to take away, what, $50-100 in material AND STILL charge more than their other systems? That's when everyone bailed... me included. You have to balance engineering costs with many other things. In this case, they went too far. How many systems do you suppose they're selling for the Explorer? I'd guess not many more than ours. There was a large amount of people interested in pre-ordering for their Sports before even hearing the system in person... and Borla & that Ford dealer had a list of names before even setting a final price, yet still decided to do what they did.

Even still, there's the whole customer-relations aspect. Why should they break-even and not make a ton of money on selling Fusion Sport exhaust? Well, get a customer with a Fusion Sport in your door for an exhaust they love, a few years down the road you sell them a cat-back system for their 2025 Mustang GT (which they'll sell a ton of), because the customer liked what they bought from you in the past. I'm a supporter of Borla, but they just made a poor business decision and had very, very poor customer communication here, and just ticked off too many people and did nothing to address that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
I'm not getting a custom exhaust made for my car, ever. I understand engineering and how that business works very well.

If they threw some extra stainless steel tubing with an exhaust gasket & connector, they had a lot of people willing to give them the $1000. They decided to take away, what, $50-100 in material AND STILL charge more than their other systems? That's when everyone bailed... me included. You have to balance engineering costs with many other things. In this case, they went too far. How many systems do you suppose they're selling for the Explorer? I'd guess not many more than ours. There was a large amount of people interested in pre-ordering for their Sports before even hearing the system in person... and Borla & that Ford dealer had a list of names before even setting a final price, yet still decided to do what they did.

Even still, there's the whole customer-relations aspect. Why should they break-even and not make a ton of money on selling Fusion Sport exhaust? Well, get a customer with a Fusion Sport in your door for an exhaust they love, a few years down the road you sell them a cat-back system for their 2025 Mustang GT (which they'll sell a ton of), because the customer liked what they bought from you in the past. I'm a supporter of Borla, but they just made a poor business decision and had very, very poor customer communication here, and just ticked off too many people and did nothing to address that.
I appreciate your response, and I'm not disagreeing with you because I just haven't been in the loop enough to judge them as doing poor business decisions and having poor customer communications. As far as I know, a third party incorrectly identified the product as a cat-back rather than an axle back. What else has gone on that I missed? :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,018 Posts
@Oreo made a post about the poor customer service directly from Mr Borla himself
 
  • Like
Reactions: bucket1952

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
If it was a full cat back exhaust the price would have been acceptable, but for just an axle back, it is not.

I wasn't an entire system that can handle more flow and not be bottle necked by the sections between the cat and axle.

If you have to have a local exhaust shop replace the center section, then you toss out all of the engineering that went into designing the Borla able back. So spending that much is pointless.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,290 Posts
Discussion Starter #290
@mike d The communication issue started early on and as teh only person to do the group buy and put money out of my pocket as I could see the value in the axle back even with it's pricing over other axle-back systems they offer. The whole cat-back vs axle-back was and is not a factor in my opinion of Borla and how they have treated their customers aka ME while they had my money. Was the confusion on James's end or on Borla's end as to what the exhaust was to actually be when releases? That is unclear however after dealing with both for 5-6 months I can tell you everything after the announcement that James has told me has been correct. He provided updates, called me personally to discuss the situation, accepted phone calls from me without hesitation. Borla on the other hand made promise after promise that my order was being boxed and shipped, week after week promises and guaranties were made and end the end not one was kept. I was told 2-3 weeks out for shipping which I agreed to but after that date came and went and no word on what was going on or where my order was I contacted Borla and end the end had Ernest Raft, Chris Baas and Dave Borla himself included in the emails. For 2.5-3 months I waited for the promised tracking number and shipping date but every time they did not keep their promise. My system was to ship Nov 9th which was my final agreed date. It didn't, I didn't receive a tracking number, no notification that the system was delayed again nothing, just silence. The following day Nov 10 some time after lunch I made a call to James at Vista Racing and requested a refund. It was done with out hesitation and instantly. Jame apologized for how this all worked out but in the end it was Borla who couldn't make it happen.

While all this was going on, I was in the middle of running a Boy Scout event for the weekend, so after the phone call to James I put it out of my mind as I had other tasks to handle. I never heard from Borla once until I had time to personally contact them with my decision to cancel my order. I felt it was the thing to do so I sent an email stating I had canceled my order on Nov 13th. I also tried to call Chris but it just went to voicemail. On Nov 15th I receive and email stating they had my order all ready to ship and basically the didn't because I canceled my order. Wait I had to read it twice. It was basically stating that the system didn't ship on time because I canceled the order. Seriously ? The email went on to offer a discount of some sort but no numbers were stated or final cost of the system and yet another promise that it would be applied when the system shipped. I replied on the Nov 16th and that is where the story ends.

Look I haven't made a rant video and posted on you tube, I was professional in all my phone conversations, emails and in my postings which were to only be two now three. I believe I was beyond patient and gave Borla every opportunity to make it right but end the end they dropped the ball, their communication was horrible, they had no follow thru/up when things were delayed again and again and end the end in my opinion tried to make it look like the system didn't ship because of me so they could save face. While David Borla was copied in and saw all the emails he never bothered to personally respond. As a matter a fact James and the owner of Vista Ford Racing broached the subject with him he pretty much brushed it off with yeah ok we will take care of it end of conversation.

I realize everything it takes to manufacture products I work for a international manufacturer. I also understand that the Fusion Sport is a micro market for these companies and not even a blip on the radar for most aftermarket companies. I try to support all vendors that take teh time to make products for our cars but my experience with Borla tainted me on their products and business practices. What they don't understand it that I have a 66, 89 Mustang project and a 68 F100 project that will all need exhaust systems so lack of communication didn't only loose them a Sport exhaust it also lost them the sell of multiple products.

As far as customer service goes for companies and people building items for our products Torrie - Unleashed Tuning, Tracy - Tracy Lewis Performance, Dan/Tamir - Veloosa Tech Designs, darkstar - Ultimate Performance and Steeda (yes I said Steeda) have been stand up people and companies to do business with.

While you have me on my soap box which is unusual for me as most of you know, I ordered a Big Mouth from Dan Veloosa Tech Designs 10/7 with the understanding there was a delay in production much like Borla. On 10/18 I received an email informing me there was a delay in production. On 10/31 I received another email stating my product was scheduled for production the following week. Then I was notified my order was complete and had shipped including tracking information. Delivered 11/16. So again I waited a month and a half for a item. The difference is Dan and Tamir made sure I knew what was going on every step of the way.

On a side note one of members of our facebook group did purchase the exhaust, it was delayed for him only once as he ordered last in the finalization process from an online parts company. Here is what John Kashinsky said "I actually ordered it as well, but I got mine. I waited about a month for it to actually arrive. I’m happy with the sound, there is no drone. BUT this was not a direct bolt on. Modifications needed to be made in order for the exhausts not to be sticking out 2-3 inches. I am disappointed that they shipped with these flaws. I would recommend it for sound, but it’s bs that it took so long and it needed to be modded so I can’t recommend it because of that."

End the end we all have to decide where we are going to spend our money and if you decide to get a Borla axle-back then I hope it is everything you want it to be and works great for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
@Oreo Thanks for the in depth recap of your experience. That definitely changes my opinion of Borla. I will not be ordering one. I can justify the price for a well engineered solution that sounds great and fits perfectly, from a company that provides good customer support but that obviously isn't Borla
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
That was a lot of reading but I’m ruling them out for the time being. I have used Borla on previous cars (2x on Focus, SVT & ST) and been happy for the most part. Their solution for a 12 SEL was a joke.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Contacted Corsa Performance. I have used their products on many of my BMW cars. Nice stuff all stainless.NO drone !
John Oravec from TMG/ Corsa got back to me in a day via Email. He had sent me a site for people that are interested is exhaust system upgrades. If the demand is there ,Corsa will look into making something for out cars. They have had some people already looking for exhaust. They make a cat-back system for a Taurus already, looks nice and sounds good. If you have some time send in the request. OR the phone number is 440-274-5083 John Oravec.
Vehicle Development Our wheelbase is 112.2 .I am looking to take my car to Cleveland OH for their dyno if they take on the project. As I said they make GREAT stuff..Check out there website Corsa Performance
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
Contacted Corsa Performance. I have used their products on many of my BMW cars. Nice stuff all stainless.NO drone !
John Oravec from TMG/ Corsa got back to me in a day via Email. He had sent me a site for people that are interested is exhaust system upgrades. If the demand is there ,Corsa will look into making something for out cars. They have had some people already looking for exhaust. They make a cat-back system for a Taurus already, looks nice and sounds good. If you have some time send in the request. OR the phone number is 440-274-5083 John Oravec.
Vehicle Development Our wheelbase is 112.2 .I am looking to take my car to Cleveland OH for their dyno if they take on the project. As I said they make GREAT stuff..Check out there website Corsa Performance
If they need someone local for R&D I would volunteer my car, but the fusion sport wasn't on the "needed vehicles" list so I'm guessing it would probably still be a while for them to get to it... Still, it would be cool to support a local company in Cleveland. They're only 40 minutes away from me, just a quick trip across town.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Called John at Corsa today and spoke with him. Told him about this club and that I would spread the word and WE didn,t want to waste his time. We LIKE our cars! and want something nice to put on them Just click on the Vehicle Development in blue from my message 9:15 today fill out the form. and hit send.... EZ >>>>>VAROOOM ! Bucket.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Called John at Corsa today and spoke with him. Told him about this club and that I would spread the word and WE didn,t want to waste his time. We LIKE our cars! and want something nice to put on them Just click on the Vehicle Development in blue from my message 9:15 today fill out the form. and hit send.... EZ >>>>>VAROOOM ! Bucket.
I'm in. I filled out the Vehicle Development form and am hoping they come out with something. I've listened to the Corsa's before and they were good.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,290 Posts
Discussion Starter #298
I can't remember if I posted it or not but CP-e has some exhaust items in R&D. No launch date or time frame yet but if enough people grabbed their Rear Motor Mount for $139.99 this past Monday with their coupon maybe it will help get it off the drawing board and into production...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
I can't remember if I posted it or not but CP-e has some exhaust items in R&D. No launch date or time frame yet but if enough people grabbed their Rear Motor Mount for $139.99 this past Monday with their coupon maybe it will help get it off the drawing board and into production...


Well that I think hurt, not having the correct price from the get go. More units probably would’ve been moved. Plus, I think their intercooler will come before the exhaust work. Glad they’re supporting multiple parts along with good customer service!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
Called John at Corsa today and spoke with him. Told him about this club and that I would spread the word and WE didn,t want to waste his time. We LIKE our cars! and want something nice to put on them Just click on the Vehicle Development in blue from my message 9:15 today fill out the form. and hit send.... EZ >>>>>VAROOOM ! Bucket.
Done and Done! Never hurts to show future interest
 
281 - 300 of 307 Posts
Top