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Does the zfg racing final revision log have the same problems with the map sensors (there are two I believe) maxing out? I can't believe they would not adjust for this. Adam at zfg has tuned many Ecoboost vehicles making more power than mine. Nobody said I would need to buy a better map sensors. Hmm. Here is the natinonal speed tune file.

thanks


 

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Discussion Starter · #62 ·
Nice :D I'll check it out soon. I realized this morning also that the afr power enrich was probably fine, I was thinking that was commanded afr and actual but it was EQ so should be fine.
You uploaded the same tune that was on there and it started running worse? If so I would think it probably would until those LTFT tables fill back up with correction data.
I also am used to converting everything to different measurements and don't use kpa often for some reason, so my converting it wasn't right. Realized when I looked at my tune. I have mine set to 42psi(minus atmospheric so can read about 28psi of boost) /290kpa,, yours should read around 22psi depending on your atmospheric pressure, but realized you have an edge sport, so I'm almost positive you have at least a 3bar map sensor, which would read at least around 30psi of boost. So for some reason as far as i can tell, they have it restricted in the tune. There are reasons for not just maxing this, as it spreads the boost you make over a larger differential and becomes harder to dial in. But no reason to go so close to the power you're making and risk it maxing. But gonna check out your log shortly
 

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National speed said they leaned it out so it was running 12 afr at wot. They said the stock tune was running way too rich at 10 afr with my modified turbos. Not sure what the map sensors can read on the edge. 2.5 or 3 bar, but the log shows 22 psi of boost max I believe. The zfg tune feels stronger for sure. I was hoping the more conservative dyno tune at National speed would solve the misfire problem after a year. Apparently not. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Gonna post this screenshot, I could only look at the hpl log, I need a dealer license to open the rtds, but funny I should be getting one soon.
There is a lot going on in the SS, haha. I still am pretty sure the map max is hurting you bad, as you'll see in this SS, right after the map maxed at 255kpa there was a bunch of misfires. Also I'm not sure what the stock shift point is, but 6150 in third i think is too high to wring it out. I think 6050 or so would be good and see how it feels.
Product Font Rectangle Line Screenshot

The problem in this is, your left and right banks are still farther apart than they should be. The map is maxed. The turbo airflow desired is insane. Also notice the spark advance, at 250 and 255 kpa, it's seeing -7*, and -13/14*, but at 6k rpm+ , positive 5/6*. Without seeing how the borderline spark tables are set up, I'm not sure if the retarded timing is modifiers or how they have it set up in the table. But like you can see in the pressures just above there shouldn't be that much of a discrepancy. But also the Long term trims being at 17 already, means the computer is adding 17% more fuel to compensate for it running lean. So the speed density tables are way way off. This is also a problem because, it uses that to calculate not only the amount of fuel based off its calculated air load, but it also does spark calculations etc based off of values that are at least 17% off the mark.
At the very least, they should raise the map max in the tune to something realistic but above what you're seeing. Probably around 275kpa so there is a few psi of boost as headroom
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
There's no way the stock tune was commanding what they said. I would think stock tune probably is set to .85/12.5 at wot. 10 afr is like .69 , 12 is around .8. At wot it's hovering around .84-.86/12.5, which i almost guarantee is stock
 

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Wow. That is alot of issues considering it was just dyno tuned September 16. I already sent them a log last week and they said everything looked great. All they would do is turn the boost down. So basically I would be driving with stock power again after all my mods. 😂. They will not adjust all that remotely and being 900 miles away I will not return again. Zfg is tired of me complaining and says all logs are great also. I tuned with them for almost half a year because I ruined an engine driving with a bad fuel injector or who knows what really. I couldn't even use half throttle to 60 without misfires. So I replaced the engine and started tuning again with zfg racing. I guess I am just stuck with how it runs. Thanks for taking a look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
The annoying things are, if they looked at the log for 10 seconds they would see it's not great. And the setting to increase map would take all of, open your tune file, click 2 tabs, change number, save file, send it to you. The turbo airflow desired is pretty telling that they didn't increase things sensibly, they just hyperpumped values.
Also, if they said they would turn the boost down, they also don't know what they're talking about, because boost is called for either by manipulating the wastegate tables or by requesting more torque/load (the correct way). The way the ecu accomplishes this is by having a TIP desired min, TIP desired absolute, and TIP desired max. If TIP desired exceeds TIP max, then it closes throttle to reduce the TIP. For spark the computer uses MBT table, Borderline table, Pre-ignition, and Cyl pressure.
I just worry for ya because those LTFTs were around 23%. That's 23% extra fuel the computer is adding to compensate for the tune. If you have an o2 sensor fail, you could run 23% lean based off the airload coming in, and could be goodbye motor. It's a gamble imo. (and also that 25% is the max correction they will store)
The thing that is annoying, is you were complaining because it's not right, your car is misfiring, and he's telling you it's all great. So they either couldn't fix the tune, or don't want to. Both are crap.
When I get my HPT dealers license and start to tune I'd gladly get you set up with at least a tune that we could make sure isn't misfiring 1300 times a cycle and praying to LTFTs to keep the motor together. I'm very confident in that at least.. heh
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
I'll take a look here shortly
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Really him changing the map max from 255 to 275kpa wouldn't throw things off much. And since the fuel trims are almost 20% off anyway, I don't think it would be any worse. And he doesn't dial it in anyway, because in order to do so he would need you to log all mapped points and the speed density parameters so you can apply the corrections to the right tables. In your case the tables would be calculating too little air load (the tables are guaranteed stock) so it's dumping in tons of fuel in reaction to the actual air load that it didn't calculate. So those tables would get bumped so the computer would naturally calculate that amount of fuel and not be doing it in reaction to calculated vs actual. I spent at least 150 hours in those quadratic equations, and I know why people wouldn't want to open that can of worms bc it's frustrating and difficult, but well worth the result when the doesn't not just NOT run like crap, but runs way harder and faster than you expected. At least that was my experience once it was dialed in
 

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Discussion Starter · #71 ·
Is this a different tune then? This one seems a lot better.
Product Font Rectangle Screenshot Parallel

almost 100 misfires happen after this screenshot..... which is also when the map is maxed at 255kpa. It's hitting combustion stability but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's hitting it with torque airlimit - popcorn. But the turbo desired flow isn't way out of whack. Also it's not in the screenshot but the spark advance at high boost is at least consistent right around 5-6* where i would feel comfortable with it being. It looks like the requested torque is lower as well. The only real concerns would be the max map being raised and the fact that the speed density is out of whack. But that's your mods, as any mod that increases the air that the stock calculations use is going to throw off that table and need adjusted. I wonder if they would at least just bump max map from 255->275 and that's it. so at least it doesn't software-pin the sensor, and that's where most of the misfiring is occurring
 

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This is zfg racing final revision. It is just a zero to 60 run. It is a log of the same tune. The zfg final revision I sent you yesterday. I just emailed zfg asking to adjust the map limit. Doubt I will even hear from him. Zfg has much more experience tuning Ecoboost than National speed. But yes there are misfires. My mods are just bigger turbos, ultimate performance intercooler, and bigger intercooler pipe. Other mods are turbo smart bov. That is it. I figured this would be a simple 50 hp bump over the stock turbos with a livernois tune. I had that for 1 year without a single misfire or cel. Didn't realize adding slightly bigger turbos and 50 hp was so difficult. Why is it so easy to tune the stock turbos but not these?
 

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This is zfg racing final revision. It is just a zero to 60 run. It is a log of the same tune. The zfg final revision I sent you yesterday. I just emailed zfg asking to adjust the map limit. Doubt I will even hear from him. Zfg has much more experience tuning Ecoboost than National speed. But yes there are misfires. My mods are just bigger turbos, ultimate performance intercooler, and bigger intercooler pipe. Other mods are turbo smart bov. That is it. I figured this would be a simple 50 hp bump over the stock turbos with a livernois tune. I had that for 1 year without a single misfire or cel.
 

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Asked zfg if the map max setting could be raised past 255kpa. His response was

That is not the case with these, the pid reads higher than that and sensors are 3 bar sensors so it reads to admit 29 psi of boost you are more in the range of 22.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 ·
Asked zfg if the map max setting could be raised past 255kpa. His response was

That is not the case with these, the pid reads higher than that and sensors are 3 bar sensors so it reads to admit 29 psi of boost you are more in the range of 22.
Except..... the pid DOESN'T read higher than that haha, it's very obvious in the log where it pegs to 255. That sucks :( Mine can read up to like 39 psi boost but the stock setting in the software is set to about 17-18psi. So he's incorrect that the software isn't a limiting factor and it will just read whatever the max of the map sensor is. But what can ya do...
I should have dealers lic in a few days/week I believe if you want I can contact you about getting something on there that is at least safe, as in not misfiring 1300+ times and not relying on the o2 sensors to keep the motor from tanking. If I knew another option I could recommend I would, but that's why I'm going to throw my hat in the ring, to see if there can be a valid sensible option for eco's where you actually get to own your tune file.
 
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Sure I would definitely be interested in buying a tune adjustment. So the inability to display a higher map kpa is in the hp tuner software or vcm scanner software? I downloaded a newer version of vcm scanner but it is more complicated than that right?
 

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Simple answer to your problem is to have Brew just write you a new file, and go from there.
 

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I was just looking at my data runs from tonight after work, I had a total of 18 miss fires since start up. This is usually the norm for mine, and I had a few good WOT pulls that netted 500 + lbs torque with no misses. So yes good tuning can be had without the miss issues, whether you do it your self or have someone writing your tunes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
Hey @Rehdetx , just looked over your stock tune file. Confirmed my suspicion about them touching speed density, because the LTFTs are the exact same. Your map doesn't go over 205kpa. The only misfires that happen at all that I can tell, is when you snap the throttle closed in 5th gear. Which from what I've seen, is when most ecoboosts have a misfire, unless there is mechanical issues. The only thing that seems kind of high to me is your cat temps. You actually had a fuel dump condition on fueling because the cats were so hot. They were a little over 840c. Usually A LOT of misfires causes that, or sustained high speed driving but you weren't doing either. Your intake temps looked good. I would bet 100$ you have an exhaust leak from the motor to the converters. I'm not positive, but I think those converter temps are right in the range that will toast the cats. (or another 50 or so C is where the metals start to melt, something around there) Your bank 1 was also running a little richer than your bank 2 again. This could be the leak (if there is one), or a failing o2 sensor. I'll recheck to see what your other tune exhaust temps looked like, because I can't imagine they would be better....
But, the (lack of) misfires on the stock tune alone make it far safer. Obviously, I'm sure you can feel it in the foot that it probably has much less kick, but that many misfires is bound to cause damage imo. I would definitely start with checking to see if you can find an exhaust leak from the motor to the cats, since if there is anything mechanical going on, no tune will fix it. If it's just a leak though, everything else to me looks totally fine and ready to get tuned. It just makes me wonder, if they didn't touch the speed density, or any cam timing (same as stock from what i can tell), or any spark timing (same as stock numbers again).... then......besides the commanded afr and stripping limiters and cranking driver demand.... what got tuned? :\ Sucks man if you were nearby I'd wanna start checking for an exhaust leak to help you out, and to quell my curiosity haha
 
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