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I had the same problems when I switched turbos and for 4 months tried plugs coils tunes ect .. finally took the tune out and poof no more problems switched to HP Tuners and now doing my own tuning ..
 
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VB are you using SCT or HP tuners now I see your data log is HPT?
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Yes all my tuners have had my list of modifications
This doesn't mean they're taking them into account when sending you a tune file. In my experience, most tuners will send you a stock file that they tweaked, regardless of mods, you could say stock or full bolt-on and you're getting the same file.

Do you have a datalog file you can share? I'd be glad to take a look. You really need to log your measured afr during WOT most importantly, but several other things also including commanded afr, rpm, load, boost, map, wastegate duty cycle, STFT, LTFT etc.
 
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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
BTW the under/overboost I've commented on in another thread, this is a (fairly simple) setting that needs changed in the tune.
 
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
VB are you using SCT or HP tuners now I see your data log is HPT?
Both actually haha. But, I am primarily using HPT now, as SCT, I believe unlocks far more parameters, but may not have them accurately described, or no description at all. With these unknown variables, there is more potential for inconsistent results. HPT I feel like has a lot less unlocked, but is good at organizing it so it's intuitive and readable, and only unlocks a parameter when they're sure of what it does and that it is accurate.
 
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Swapping coils is one of the first things most will do, if the miss follows the coil, then you know it's the problem. This was done by more than a few people experiencing the problem , and they still got the miss codes for the same cylinders. Only thing I have not heard is whether anyone had gone to the trouble too swap injectors ? I know of one person that switched back to the stock tune even though he is heavily modified and the miss issue went away. So just because someone says it's custom, doesn't mean a thing. I agree with Brew you think your getting something custom, when it's really just a stock tune with a few tweaks here n there to make the car feel better.
 
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Both actually haha. But, I am primarily using HPT now, as SCT, I believe unlocks far more parameters, but may not have them accurately described, or no description at all. With these unknown variables, there is more potential for inconsistent results. HPT I feel like has a lot less unlocked, but is good at organizing it so it's intuitive and readable, and only unlocks a parameter when they're sure of what it does and that it is accurate.
You using BETA or the standard ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
BTW for those interested I am looking at setting up a site now for tuning our platform, but I WILL be supplying an unlocked tune file, because I have never been a fan of tuners locking tune files due to what we talked about above. I think, if you pay for the tune, YOU PAID FOR THE TUNE, you didn't rent it, you bought it. But I also like the idea of providing an unlocked tune file because, if someone wants to tweak it, or, ask "hey why is this parameter this value, i noticed it while looking through the tune file", then I can discuss why and what it's benefitting to the overall tune. OR maybe they want something changed that they noticed wasn't changed, they can do it if they'd like, or ask me and we can take a look and see, maybe it was left stock for a reason, maybe not, but I think in the grand scheme of things, it would provide the best experience and most confidence for someone using the tune, as well as myself, when everything isn't hidden behind a wizard of oz curtain. Maybe they won't want to or care to look at the tune file, that's fine too. But having the option I think would be a huge thing for people who want to really dig into this platform.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
You using BETA or the standard ?
I use VCM editor 4.10.5 currently
**i have the beta but only use it to look for other parameters and things, as it states do not use in a live environment. I know it's probably fine, but when it comes to my or someone elses engine, I would not want to the be the one to say "btw, i used a beta editor" haha
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I actually borescoped my engine the other day, as I'm a little over 39,000 miles now, so since I've had methanol injection since like..... 2,000 miles (haha) I wanted to see how it looked and how much carbon buildup there was.
I forgot to take pictures with the borescope but I'm actually going to do it again to share pictures. I was very, very surprised. The internals literally looked brand new. I mean, not one speck of carbon, nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Easiest way to troubleshoot misfires IMO.

First and foremost, put the stock tune on the car, if misfires are gone, congrats, it was the tune.
If not, get forscan or another program that can look at mode 6 data, to see which cyl is the issue or if all are. If it is a specific cylinder, swap coil pack with a known good cylinder. If misfire followed, replace coil pack. If not, check spark plug condition and gap. Can use a noid or similar to actually check spark intensity. If it is all cylinders, random cylinders, (and this is where tuners blame hardware imo), check plugs for carbon deposits, check afr, too rich or too lean will cause misfires across the cyls like this.

Also, I haven't really seen it discussed but at higher boost I was at a point that had very few misfires at WOT, i'm talking like 2-3 per pull. Checked plugs, all were .028. I tightened up the gap to .026, problem solved.

Very rarely you could have vacuum leak, leaky injector, etc. but these are rare cases imo
 
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This doesn't mean they're taking them into account when sending you a tune file. In my experience, most tuners will send you a stock file that they tweaked, regardless of mods, you could say stock or full bolt-on and you're getting the same file.

Do you have a datalog file you can share? I'd be glad to take a look. You really need to log your measured afr during WOT most importantly, but several other things also including commanded afr, rpm, load, boost, map, wastegate duty cycle, STFT, LTFT etc.
Sure, thanks for taking a look. Appeciate it. No it never misfires on the stock tune. I thought maybe I damaged my cats by now driving for a year with a misfire. But no cel for anything other than misfires on the tunes. Here is three logs for 93 tune. I couldn't attach a hpl file. So I used google drive. hope that is allowed here. Can a log show if wastegates are working properly? If there was one not closing properly? I hate to pull the turbos to check that. Misfires are random. Cylinders 2,3 and 6 most usually. What about a weak fuel pump that is fine on the stock tune or fuel filter? The vehicle has new fuel injectors, coils, and plugs. Plugs are ngk 6510 gapped at .026.

 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
It depends on how many parameters are logged, if it shows cannister pressure and cannister pressure desired, desired load, actual load, wastegate duty cycle, etc then will at least be able to see if it is IS working properly.
IMO unless you were running extremely rich I doubt you would of damaged the cats. Ford baked several parameters into the logic to fuel dump, pull spark, among other precautions, if it detects temps that will damage the cats, and I believe would throw a wrench light + limp mode before actual damage occurred. If the logs have injector pulse, fuel pump duty cycle, etc it'll show if you're maxing out but will have to check. My initial guess would be you're not maxing it.
Are the misfires only wot? high rpm? Have you checked plugs to see if they are covered in black soot (carbon) or their condition? It could be the afr of the tune or a timing issue\
I requested access to the files, they were private
 
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Going to check them out more in a bit, but initial off the bat, this is an issue, you're running extremely lean on LTFTs, and it looks like the short term trims are fighting it. This puts the fate of the engine in the hands of the short term trims to be able to react. I would wipe the LTFTs right away so you can log clean. Unless this is how the LTFTs end up anyway. I will go through the log files more in depth in about an hour or so though as soon as I finish up a few things.
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You should have access now. Yes misfires are only at wide open throttle high rpm. I have went through many sets of plugs because they are black in soot yes. carbon fouled. The tuner said it wasn't running rich. National speed said they leaned it out. When I gave it to them they said the stock tune was crazy rich.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I dont know the exact scaling of your table for spark/etc so I'm just adding in parameters to the graph to see where the computer is kicking over different rates. But your LTFTs are almost maxed out, once that happens the computer wont be able to compensate anymore. (25% is max)
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Definitely still looking through just some stuff that jumped out at me. Also the # of misfires since key on is higher than i'd be comfortable with until you can get the tune smoothed out. (I say the tune because you said the stock tune doesn't have misfires)
I would imagine you're getting QUITE a bit of hesitation/bucking at 4500+ WOT
 

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1200 is pretty high, I think we decided 30 to 40 was the norm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
You're maxing out your map sensor, it's hitting 255kpa and can't read any higher. You're also seeing a good amount of knock, the computer is pulling almost 4* of timing due to knock. You're also hitting combustion stability limits. The thing I would be looking at the most first is this:
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there really shouldn't be a time your banks should be this far apart. Looks like bank 1 is running lean. You could have a failing sensor or an exhaust leak
 
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