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I finally saw this mythical unicorn. A silver one in Michigan. Driver looked like a female and was spraying her windshield fluid all over the place. Wasn't sure if she thought I was too close or something. I managed to catch a glimpse of the 3.0T and had to do a triple take to make sure it was what I saw. Ford doesn't know how to market their performance cars that aren't a Mustang.
 

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Wow, are they really that rare? I honestly see 3.0T MKZ's weeky around me (usually AWD too). I've still only seen two Fusion Sports in public after several years, tho (well, plus one fellow Sport member as we were leaving a car show).
 

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I've seen probably 6 to 12 Fusion Sports in the wild here in SE MI. Every MKZ i have seen was a hybrid or 2.0T, don't think I have ever seen a 2.7 and the 3.0 was the first today. Only a few other Fusion Sport owners have given me a wave or tried to race me.
 

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I've seen probably 6 to 12 Fusion Sports in the wild here in SE MI. Every MKZ i have seen was a hybrid or 2.0T, don't think I have ever seen a 2.7 and the 3.0 was the first today. Only a few other Fusion Sport owners have given me a wave or tried to race me.
I'm so jealous of you folks up in Michigan who have these things all over the place. I've seen exactly one FFS in the wild, and no 3.0 MKZs that I can recall. Actually the FFS was just about a week ago, headed west on I-40 out near Durham. I pointed it out to my wife, who was driving her 1.5L Fusion at the time, but it flew past us at a pretty decent speed and we couldn't see it any more after a minute or so. Even if whoever was driving it was a member on here they wouldn't have recognized us because we were in just another 1.5L Fusion.
 

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Wow I'm surprised. I figured if people are shopping Lincoln they're more willing to spend the cash on an upgraded model or something.

No 2.7 in the MKZ tho, just in the MKX and base engine for the Continental.

But yeah for the 13-16 MKZ I mostly see 2.0T but for the 17+ I see mostly 2.0H around here. Plenty of 3.0T tho. The rarest MKZ around here is the 3.7 AWD - I've only ever seen a few.

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When the 2019 and 2020 Fusions arrived almost every single one i saw was a hybrid. It was like Ford had a BOGO on 2019 and 2020 hybrids.

Most people in SE MI just lease because they get the A or Z plan, and don't really care about the trim or packages. So we end up with a bunch of relatively less expensive 2.0Ts and 2.0 Hybrids.
 

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When the 2019 and 2020 Fusions arrived almost every single one i saw was a hybrid. It was like Ford had a BOGO on 2019 and 2020 hybrids.

Most people in SE MI just lease because they get the A or Z plan, and don't really care about the trim or packages. So we end up with a bunch of relatively less expensive 2.0Ts and 2.0 Hybrids.
Having owned two 1.5Ls (one of which we still own), I always sort of wondered whether the hybrid was even worth the performance hit from the battery weight, as well as the loss of trunk space, etc..... The 1.5L turbo engine does a decent job for a family car and certainly if you drive it the same way most people drive a hybrid, it doesn't do too bad on gas either. I guess it just depends on your situation. But I think that little 1.5L does all right for a small economobile, at least once they fixed the problems they were having with the water in the cylinders and so on, with the firmware update.
 

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I finally saw this mythical unicorn. A silver one in Michigan. Driver looked like a female and was spraying her windshield fluid all over the place. Wasn't sure if she thought I was too close or something. I managed to catch a glimpse of the 3.0T and had to do a triple take to make sure it was what I saw. Ford doesn't know how to market their performance cars that aren't a Mustang.
I still have never seen a 3.0 MKZ, either in the wild or at a dealership. Most of the Fusion Sports I've seen are either ownered here or FB. LOL
 

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We built two at work a couple years ago now, one FWD and the other AWD. I drove both, and will say that extra 50 ponies is noticeble. Big thing I liked was the low end grunt, but still had plenty of top end when you got your foot in it.
 
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Ford was insane to offer the 3.0 in front wheel drive. Torque steer!
Makes me remember the "Torque Steer Compensation" setting in Forscan. I never heard a good explanation of what that was. I think our FFSes default to off for that, but I agree that 3.0 has to have some mad torque steer in a FWD vehicle.

I've even been in tuned 1.5L EB FWD cars that have crazy torque steer. So a 3.0TT....wow.

I tell you though, I look for these 3.0 AWD MKZs every now and then. Just because. But every time, I can't find anything I'd want to trade my FFS in for. They're really nice, but seriously, every time they're missing something important. I've even seen beautiful 2018 Black Labels occasionally, and I think "cool!" then I look closer and realize it's missing Adaptive Cruise. WTH???? My FFS has that. I'm not taking a step down. I'm not losing features. I have Park Assist and I wouldn't even want to lose that, even though I've used it exactly once, just to play with it and see how it worked. But seriously, finding a decent MKZ that could replace a fully-optioned FFS is really, really hard.
 

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I'll also add that almost every MKZ I see, no matter how nice the trim is, almost always has the 2.0. That's a nice motor if you look at it objectively, but there's no way I'd trade in my 2.7TT V6 for an I4 2.0T. No way. Not gonna happen.
 

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Makes me remember the "Torque Steer Compensation" setting in Forscan. I never heard a good explanation of what that was. I think our FFSes default to off for that, but I agree that 3.0 has to have some mad torque steer in a FWD vehicle.

I've even been in tuned 1.5L EB FWD cars that have crazy torque steer. So a 3.0TT....wow.

I tell you though, I look for these 3.0 AWD MKZs every now and then. Just because. But every time, I can't find anything I'd want to trade my FFS in for. They're really nice, but seriously, every time they're missing something important. I've even seen beautiful 2018 Black Labels occasionally, and I think "cool!" then I look closer and realize it's missing Adaptive Cruise. WTH???? My FFS has that. I'm not taking a step down. I'm not losing features. I have Part Assist and I wouldn't even want to lose that, even though I've used it exactly once, just to play with it and see how it worked. But seriously, finding a decent MKZ that could replace a fully-optioned FFS is really, really hard.
Hi Engineer. Just another perspective/opinion here: Not everyone wants every new gadget, so in the same manner that Adaptive Cruise Control was optional on the Fusion Sport, Adaptive Cruise Control was also optional on the MKZ. Why make people pay for features they may not want? I miss the old days, when we could essentially read down a list of single options, checking off what we wanted, and leaving out what we did not. Not just a choice between several bundled "Option Packages", which sometimes force a buyer to accept options they did not want, just to get the one or two they wanted..
But that went away years ago, in order for the manufacturers to streamline their production process and maximize profits.

I have the same situation with moonroofs. Nope, no way...don't want one. But so many vehicles nowadays make it a standard feature. So I wind up paying for a "feature" I do not even want.
I was lucky with my 208 MKZ Reserve #.0T AWD. The moonroof was a standalone option for that trim level/model in 2018. But in the 2019 model year, the moonroof came bundled as part of a package (Luxury Package, if I recall correctly). So that meant I would have been forced to accept a 2019 with a moonroof, if I wanted the LED Headlamps and a few other features. So I was lucky I ordered a 2018.

Nothing is free, so even if a feature is "standard", we are paying for it. Therefore, I always consider it better that we have as many choices on features/equipment/options as possible. Why force owners to pay for a feature they do not want, or may never use?

Anyway, just my personal opinion. ;)

Good luck.
 
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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I was able to find a brand new black 2020 MKZ 3.0 AWD with the Luxury Package, and NO sunroof. They wanted $50k-60k X-Plan (forgot the exact value but add TTL). If I was starting from scratch, meaning didn't have the Fusion Sport and Explorer, I'd totally have gone for it. It's exactly what I wanted. But $50k-$60k was a hard sell for me since I could get the Explorer ST for about the same price with far more capability and thicker tires, even though 2020-2021 Explorers are absolute rubbish due to lack of quality control at Chicago plus Ford pushing sub-standard product off the line to meet sales figures, and the COVID19 supply issues. I might wait for 2023 when they work out the bugs with the 10R60 and hopefully the supply chain evens out and quality gets better at Chicago Assembly (can't say it with a straight face).

But having driven the Explorer and Fusion Sport over the past 3 years, I can see why the SUV craze is where it is. The Explorer is just so much easier and more convenient to drive. I have better visibility of the road and traffic. I have a lot more cargo room. It is spacious and comfortable. The tires have sidewalls. There's actual ground clearance for driving in all conditions. Etc... Even with the relatively gutless N/A 3.5 V6, I find myself enjoying the Explorer more for daily use. In the Fusion Sport, I can't really see much of the road ahead to detect potholes until it is too late due to the angle/driving position. It's fun without a doubt. But if I had my way, I'd want the performance of the MKZ 3.0 AWD in the Explorer-sized platform, which is basically the Explorer ST. Tune-only they are known to run low 12s. The 10R60 has 1 or 2 too many gears that need to be skipped at WOT for even faster ETs but the turbos are sized slightly larger than the MKZ/Conti 3.0 turbos, should flow 60 lb/min easily with a tune. I don't know why Ford used the 10R60 on the Explorer ST, when they put the 10R80 on a lighter Ranger with a lower performing 2.3L engine. Doesn't make sense.


Makes me remember the "Torque Steer Compensation" setting in Forscan. I never heard a good explanation of what that was. I think our FFSes default to off for that, but I agree that 3.0 has to have some mad torque steer in a FWD vehicle.

I've even been in tuned 1.5L EB FWD cars that have crazy torque steer. So a 3.0TT....wow.
Torque Steer Compensation is also a function of the power steering control module as well as the PCM. In FORScan, there are settings for anti-nibble, wind drift/compensation, soft stops, and torque steer compensation. These newer EPAS systems are actually very nice. The Fusion Sport has most of these enabled, but I don't remember if torque steer compensation was enabled. Basically the power steering control module has the ability to steer your vehicle without user input. Think about the active park assist, lane departure assist, etc... So what the anti-nibble/drift/soft stop/torque steer compensation does is exactly that. It does tiny corrections to prevent the user from having to fight the steering as much. I know my 2018 Explorer has these enabled but in my notes the anti-nibble made it feel weird off-center so I think I disabled it. The torque steer compensation mode in the PCM is, as far as I can gather, just reduction of torque output when torque steer is detected/inferred.

My SHO had some noticeable torque steer as does my Explorer N/A 3.5 V6 from time to time. Never really felt it in the Fusion Sport.

My Cobalt SS Turbo has so much torque steer that it will steer you into the left lane, no joke. Bone stock with 260 ft-lb, the factory Quaife limited slip differential really helps cut that down, so it wasn't noticeable. I test drove a new Mazdaspeed3 back-to-back with the Cobalt SS Turbo and the MS3 was so bad that it literally sent me into the left lane. The MS3 did not have a LSD option. When I tuned the Cobalt SS, it now makes 320+ ft-lb of torque and the LSD isn't enough to compensate. So when I launch I am using both arms and both feet: left hand fighting the torque steer, right hand getting ready to shift, left foot modulating the clutch, and right foot modulating the throttle. Takes a lot of work and finesse with that car. It looks like a relatively unsuspecting compact rental car, but Coyote Mustangs even the Boss 302 with manual transmissions are far easier to drive than the Cobalt. On top of it, the F35 manual gearbox driveline angle wasn't really designed in mind with the LNF powerplant. I guess GM intended the LNF for automatics on the transverse applications as it originally came on the 2006 Opel GT (aka Saturn Sky Redline, RWD). So without this angle corrected, you'd also get MASSIVE wheelhop/axlehop so my rear view mirror would droop down and the dashboard sounded like it was going to fly apart. With the Powell racing engine/trans mounts that correct this angle, I just burnout the tires in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears trying to launch hard.

The GM LTG powerplant (about 2 or 3 generations newer than LNF) - found in Camaro, ATS, Malibu, Buick, 2.0 GTDI with 260 ft-lb, they smoke the tires in 1st and 2nd gear if you launch incorrectly. My friend's 2015 Malibu LTZ w/ LTG has this issue. She said it takes technique to launch it and she has it down pat. GM even put a V8 into the front-wheel Impala SS at one point! Sheesh!
 

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Thank you to both @bbf2530 and @metroplex for your very thorough and well-thought-out responses!

I will say that, for me, I just haven't found an MKZ that had the full set of options and, of course, at a price I'd be willing to pay. Actually, the full set of options is really the main problem because, as I was mentioning, I really honestly haven't seen any that had the full set. I've looked a decent amount, but they just don't seem very common. That tells me that you might be right, @bbf2530 , when you mention people not wanting to pay for features they don't need, especially on the highest-end, most luxurious Ford brand, which is already expensive. However, I would say that, again, for me, I'm just not interested in buying something that's not fully optioned if I'm going to get a high-end car. My FFS is fully optioned (well, other than the block heater; I don't think I have that, although I don't know that I've ever really checked--but I don't think it's on mine). Anyhow I have every other option, and that's a fairly fully-loaded car. So it's just pretty much impossible for me to make a case for why I would ever trade in my FFS and get an MKZ that wasn't fully loaded. At the very least, with every single option I have (or its higher Lincoln equivalent).

I mentioned the Adaptive Cruise. That, to me, is a deal-breaker. If I have a long drive, there's no way I'd ever want another car that didn't have that feature. Ever. So I don't plan to, ever again, own a car that doesn't have some form of adaptive cruise (or whatever replaces it and is better, somewhere down the road). I'm not making a value judgement on people who choose to not have Adaptive Cruise; that's a personal choice, and there are good reasons for not having it, for instance just not wanting it, or if someone is planning an upgraded intercooler that might get in the way. But again, it's personal choice. However, again to me, a car without that would be a downgrade. Even if it was a brand upgrade.

And to be sure, there are certain things I would gain if I did trade in for the Lincoln. I would assume I successfully found a 3.0AWD, because anything less than a V6 would just be unacceptable, despite my respect for all the Ecoboost engines in their respective applications. The 2.0T is a great engine. But I wouldn't want to step down to that from a 2.7TT V6. Same with AWD, I wouldn't want to move from AWD to FWD. I'd consider that a step backward.

Anyhow, I know I'd gain certain things. For instance, the Sony audio system I have is pretty good; I actually like it a lot, unlike some folks on here. I think it sounds pretty good. But I have no doubt that the Revel Audio system would be better. No doubt about it. But am I willing to give up any of the features I now have in my car, to get that? No. I'm really not. I wouldn't want to take a step back, or at least what I would personally perceive as a step back. Others may not see it that way, but if it's me reading the signs, that's a step back.

Then of course there's the price. I care a lot less about that than the features, to be honest. But if an MKZ that has features critical to me, like Adaptive Cruise, missing, is priced at slightly more than my basically fully-loaded FFS would be on trade-in, then I'd be in for a pretty hefty bill if I actually did manage to find one fully loaded. Which, again, I would have to have because otherwise I'd personally consider it a step down. At least in some very important ways that I value too highly to allow that to happen. So the price is part of it, given the large disparity, but it's really a lot more about the feature set. If I'd have known about the two cars back when they were new, preferably 2018 I would have bought one brand new, fully optioned, if I had the money to do it. That would have been idea. As it is, at the time I didn't know much about either of these cars so it's a moot point.

So I think, as much as I like MKZs, and really do admire them from a distance, I don't think I'll probably ever trade my FFS in to get one because I just don't see a way to get there from here.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Unrelated commentary:

After doing my research on the MKZ, the Luxury Package is a must-have option for me as it has the superior LED headlights. They blow the Fusion Sport LED headlights out of the water. I'd consider the Fusion Sport LED headlight output/pattern to be more comparable to a mediocre factory HID setup from years ago like the SHO. Those were quite bad at night for spotting potholes in the rain at night or anything on the road at night. Luckily Ford is getting better but you have to check IIHS to find out which trim/package has good lights. For example, all of the 2020-up Explorer LED headlights are junk compared to the 16-19 Explorers. The 2020-up Escape Titanium is the only one with good LED headlights. MKZ needs the Luxury Package. pre-21 F-150 needs to be at least Lariat 502A and 21-up F-150 needs XLT 302A or higher. These are things the average person leasing a vehicle wouldn't necessarily look into or check, nor would a salesperson care even though headlights are a critical safety item in my opinion. Right up there with tires and brakes.
 

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I was able to find a brand new black 2020 MKZ 3.0 AWD with the Luxury Package, and NO sunroof. They wanted $50k-60k X-Plan (forgot the exact value but add TTL). If I was starting from scratch, meaning didn't have the Fusion Sport and Explorer, I'd totally have gone for it. It's exactly what I wanted. But $50k-$60k was a hard sell for me since I could get the Explorer ST for about the same price with far more capability and thicker tires, even though 2020-2021 Explorers are absolute rubbish due to lack of quality control at Chicago plus Ford pushing sub-standard product off the line to meet sales figures, and the COVID19 supply issues. I might wait for 2023 when they work out the bugs with the 10R60 and hopefully the supply chain evens out and quality gets better at Chicago Assembly (can't say it with a straight face).
Hi metroplex. Just addressing what I highlighted in red...The statement about finding "a brand new black 2020 MKZ 3.0 AWD with the Luxury Package, and NO sunroof": Whatever you found was a listing of incorrect information. The 3.0T engine is not/was not available in any 2020 MKZ trim level without a moonroof.

There were two non-hybrid 2020 MKZ trim levels; The MKZ (the base model) and the MKZ Reserve. While the MKZ (base model) was available without a moonroof, it could not be ordered with the 3.0T engine.
And while the 3.0T was available/optional in the MKZ Reserve, it came standard with a moonroof.

So if you had gone to buy that 2020 MKZ 3.0T, you would have found one of two cars; Either a 2.0T with no moonroof...or a 3.0T with a moonroof.

And on a related note: I purchased my factory ordered, 2018 MKZ Reserve 3.0T AWD, w/Drivers Package, fully loaded with every option except for moonroof, for $48,560 out the door. I used X-Pan and Costco Buyer Plans to work the price down between 4 Lincoln dealers. I probably spent more time negotiating between the 4 Dealerships than many would prefer to spend, but it was worth it for me. So good deals were there for those who have the time to negotiate them.

But again, the 2020 MKZ 3.0T was not available without a moonroof.

Good luck.

EDIT- I attached the 2020 MKZ Dealer Order Guide, so the information I provided above can be verified by anyone who is interested. For those not familiar, the Dealer Order Guide is the information guide that a Lincoln Dealer works from when they order a vehicle. Nothing can be ordered differently than listed in the Order Guide.
If I made an error, and someone sees something I did not, feel free to point it out.
 

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Glad I don't live in Michigan, don't need to worry about pot holes, LOL.
 
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Does anyone know if the decontenting on the FFS in the latter cars also applied to the MKZ? For instance, the sound-deadening glass on the sides? If I should happen to find a decent example of an MKZ I like, and otherwise it looks like a good option, I'd like to know whether the decontenting (respectability in the 19 and later cars) hit the MKZ like it did the Fusions. Things like sound insulation, AC outlet, all that stuff.
 

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Does anyone know if the decontenting on the FFS in the latter cars also applied to the MKZ? For instance, the sound-deadening glass on the sides? If I should happen to find a decent example of an MKZ I like, and otherwise it looks like a good option, off like to know whether the decontenting (respectability in the 19 and later cars) hit the MKZ like it did the Fusions. Things like sound insulation, AC outlet, all that stuff.
Hi Engineer. MKZ's had side sound deadening glass until production was ended at the end of the 2020 model year..

Other trim levels and option packages were "repackaged" to change the offerings. For example, the black with white trimmed leather interior that was part of the "Drivers Package" in 2017-2018 was dropped for 2019, along with the "Drivers Package" itself.

Some of the Drivers Package features were made standard on the 3.0T AWD in 2019-2020 (i.e. Torque Vectoring System...), while others were dropped (the black/white leather, black painted calipers etc.). But I don't know that I would call it "de-contenting", as like what happened with the end of production Fusions/Fusion Sports.

Hope that was not too confusing.

Good luck.
 
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