[Oreo]

Ok there has been a lot of debate about the factory air box vs Steeda CAI and the gambit of opinions.

On the you need a CAI opinion side: the factory air box doesn't flow well, to restrictive, hinders performance and in general is a POS.

On the factory air box is just fine side: it flows good, the turbos will pull all the air they need, the CAI is actually a HAI (hot air intake), Performance drop ins like AFE or K&N work just as well, and there is a big mouth snorkel coming.

So I got to thinking, before I just bail off and grab a CAI because it "the way to go" how can I see if I am restricting my engines air need with the factory air box. Hmm how about a filter minder? If you are not familiar with these they attach to the post filter side of the air box and have a spring loaded diaphragm that as your filter becomes dirty or restrictive the vacuum or suction created by the engine compresses the spring and it is reflected on the visual gauge. Most diesels have these on the air boxes.

Simple install find a spot, back side by battery, drill a hole in air box lid and install grommet then minder. That simple. Then it's just a matter of running the car and checking the gauge to see if the air box is truly limiting air flow. Link to minder...

K&N 85-2445 Filter Minder Push In Air Filter Service Indicator | eBay

I'm thinking I'll install minder, test the install with the factory air filter then drop in an AFE Pro Dry S air filter and run it again. It's not an exact science but it will tell me what I want to know and maybe save me a couple hundred bucks. On the bonus side I'll have a visual reminder to clean my filter.

FYI when I first tuned my 7.3L power stroke I actually collapsed the factory air box because of the extra boost the tune generated and how restrictive the stock air box is. From there I installed the Ford AIS system that runs the Donaldson filter (they make filters for the Abrams tanks) with a fender port mod and have never looked back.

 

[Oreo]

FYI at 6500rpm and 16psi boost we are flowing about 586 cfm of air through the 2.7L air pump. More or Less, Ball park figure, YMMV, WAG.

Data used in case somebody wants to know...

RPM - 6500
Engine Displacement - 2700 cc
VE - 90% (estimated)
Boost - 16 psi or 1.10316116 bars

 

[froshy00]

FYI at 6500rpm and 16psi boost we are flowing about 586 cfm of air through the 2.7L air pump. More or Less, Ball park figure, YMMV, WAG.

Data used in case somebody wants to know...

RPM - 6500
Engine Displacement - 2700 cc
VE - 90% (estimated)
Boost - 16 psi or 1.10316116 bars

What formula did you use?

And on the airbox filter minder. They are a very general not really well calibrated "tool" you would be much better off tapping a thread and putting a barb fitting and just buying a vacuum gauge.

Mityvac MV5511 Fuel Pressure Tester - Fuel System Tools

Something like that would be usefull for many different diagnostic tests and is handy to have.

Or if you want something more vacuum specific and therefore more accurate for this oerticular test..

https://www.walmart.com/ip/1-1-2-Ut...5484&wl11=online&wl12=689124128&wl13=&veh=sem

 

[Oreo]

What formula did you use?

And on the airbox filter minder. They are a very general not really well calibrated "tool" you would be much better off tapping a thread and putting a barb fitting and just buying a vacuum gauge.

Mityvac MV5511 Fuel Pressure Tester - Fuel System Tools

Something like that would be usefull for many different diagnostic tests and is handy to have.

Or if you want something more vacuum specific and therefore more accurate for this oerticular test..

https://www.walmart.com/ip/1-1-2-Ut...5484&wl11=online&wl12=689124128&wl13=&veh=sem

Going the minder route is quick and easy as I do not want or need a permanent gauge. I know minders are not dead accurate like a true gauge but they will do what am looking to do. Advantage of the minder is I can install it quickly and easily and if the air box is restricting the air flow and pulls a vacuum it will hold that indication until I reset it. This allows me to drive the car, run it under load in everyday conditions and check it every now and then. It's the poor man's testing process but if the air box is truly restricting the gauge the minder will indicate it.

As to the formula I did quite a bit of digging and used several sites to generate the info but here is the CFM with Boost site.

Engine Air Amount Calculator

I'm no engineer but it's Saturday, I had a pot of coffee and was curious. LOL

 

[Oreo]

Hmmmm maybe the Big Mouth Ram Air pushing outside air to the Steeda CAI... See , see what you did... Ahhhhhhhhhh

 

[froshy00]

Going the minder route is quick and easy as I do not want or need a permanent gauge. I know minders are not dead accurate like a true gauge but they will do what am looking to do. Advantage of the minder is I can install it quickly and easily and if the air box is restricting the air flow and pulls a vacuum it will hold that indication until I reset it. This allows me to drive the car, run it under load in everyday conditions and check it every now and then. It's the poor man's testing process but if the air box is truly restricting the gauge the minder will indicate it.

As to the formula I did quite a bit of digging and used several sites to generate the info but here is the CFM with Boost site.

Engine Air Amount Calculator

I'm no engineer but it's Saturday, I had a pot of coffee and was curious. LOL

Well i meant more of a gauge with a hose into the cabin so you can watch it. Either way you are drilling a hole... figured if your going to spend time and effort, may as well get an accurate reading. The filter minder may set at a much higher then desirable vacuum limit then what you would want in a performance situation.

Ill check out that calculator later, some reason my phone wont open it.?

 

[La Flama Blanca]

Well it sounds like Volessa is working on a Sport install in the coming week.
I'd love to see an A-B-A comparison using it.
My Digital volt meter has a thermocoupler in the kit, it wouldn't be hard
to shove it into the air box and measure air box temp with and without the intake while driving down the road.
I feel it's gonna make a big difference in temp. and volume of incoming air.

The more I think about it I may try to shove the thermocoupler in there tomorrow and tape the meter onto
the windshield just to measure the incoming air temp. while driving down the road.

Like posted above, a vacuum gauge would be helpful as well.

 

[Oreo]

My goal isn't to monitor the gauge like I would Boost, EGT's, Temps. I see what you are saying about accuracy and that requires a gauge and in my application a drag needle vacuum gauge. That way it can be plumbed into the upper air box, close the hood, drive normally and a few WOT's runs and the gauge will be able to maintain the max vacuum achieved reading. I do have a vacuum gauge in the shop that I use for tuning carbs and troubleshooting I could rig up.

Using the gauge leads to the next question how much vacuum is to much vacuum in the post filter airbox and I don't have any idea how to calculate that number. Maybe another google foo session. The other plus to using the gauge is that it would allow me to get accurate readings for the Ford factory filter (single layer by the way) vs when I toss in the AFE Magnum Flow Pro Dry S Air Filter.

I was looking at the airbox snorkel this evening and it is pretty darn small and makes a heck of a bend. I believe that will be the biggest bottle neck. Gonna dig it out tomorrow to get a good look at it and see if I there isn't a way to dual port the box like I did on my 7.3L.

I sent an email to Volessa the other day asking about it and basically laid out my build path including, documentation process to verify gains and losses etc. Dan replied that he is in the process of test fitting for the Sport platform and that I should include it on my upgrades list. He's going to send me an email when he has them available.

 

[froshy00]

My goal isn't to monitor the gauge like I would Boost, EGT's, Temps. I see what you are saying about accuracy and that requires a gauge and in my application a drag needle vacuum gauge. That way it can be plumbed into the upper air box, close the hood, drive normally and a few WOT's runs and the gauge will be able to maintain the max vacuum achieved reading. I do have a vacuum gauge in the shop that I use for tuning carbs and troubleshooting I could rig up.

Using the gauge leads to the next question how much vacuum is to much vacuum in the post filter airbox and I don't have any idea how to calculate that number. Maybe another google foo session. The other plus to using the gauge is that it would allow me to get accurate readings for the Ford factory filter (single layer by the way) vs when I toss in the AFE Magnum Flow Pro Dry S Air Filter.

I was looking at the airbox snorkel this evening and it is pretty darn small and makes a heck of a bend. I believe that will be the biggest bottle neck. Gonna dig it out tomorrow to get a good look at it and see if I there isn't a way to dual port the box like I did on my 7.3L.

I sent an email to Volessa the other day asking about it and basically laid out my build path including, documentation process to verify gains and losses etc. Dan replied that he is in the process of test fitting for the Sport platform and that I should include it ony my upgrades list. He's going to send me an email when he has them available.

Any vacuum at wot is bad. Yes the turbo is forcing air but if its getting a vacuum preturbo you are loosing power. If ya have a gauge with a drag needle that be great! Being able to monitor live is neat... vacuum may be different at freeway spoeeds compared to a launch from a stop... theres a million variables and theories and all are fun to explore!

I have a 7.3 also im not sure whatcha mean by dual port....?

Either way. Good luck! And have fun!!

Ps...... you still work on "ancient fuel injection control mudule disribution units with i integrated throttle bodies"?! (Aka... Carburators)
Lost art really, i love um!

 

[Oreo]

According to the K&N Filter Minder it is calibrated for the red zone = 10" H2O or 3.6 psi lb/in2. That is pretty light compared to the diesel minder where the Red Zone is 20" - 25" H2O or 0 psi lb/in2.

The calculator I used to convert from "in H2O".

Here is a pretty good read about filterminders, calibrations and ranges of operation.

US Post Office On Wheels - Base Vehicle - Air Filter Indicator

 

[Oreo]

Link to calculator for "in H2O" Left it off last post and can't edit...

http://anver.com/company/reference-guides/vacuum/

The following is non topic related and intended for froshy00 LOL

ROFLMAO Yes I still work on carbs, have a dwell meter, adjustable timing light, distributor wrench and all that old stuff.

The Dual Port is for the air box. I installed the Ford AIS Sever Duty system on the truck as it had as good or better air flow and filtration but cost less than the aftermarkets CAI. The second port comes from putting a 4"(might be a 3" it's been 13 years) hole in the drivers side of the air box. Then you install a custom made closed cellular foam grommet between the box and the drivers fender apron. Now the box can pull air from the factory snorkel and from the fender well like the early models.

Also you can do the ZooDad Mod which is pretty simple. The nose of the snorkel is behind the front radiator support drivers side. To get fresh cold air forced into the snorkel you remove the grill and drill 3 2'-2.5" vertical holes in front of the snorkel opening.

Now you have air flow from two areas and forced air into the snorkel.

 

[froshy00]

According to the K&N Filter Minder it is calibrated for the red zone = 10" H2O or 3.6 psi lb/in2. That is pretty light compared to the diesel minder where the Red Zone is 20" - 25" H2O or 0 psi lb/in2.

The calculator I used to convert from "in H2O".

Here is a pretty good read about filterminders, calibrations and ranges of operation.

US Post Office On Wheels - Base Vehicle - Air Filter Indicator

Ive never used inches of water. I had to look it up, its a very very small (accurate measurment) and actually great for this measurment. Ive always used in mercury, but after reading about the inh2o, a gauge with in mercury (inhg) may not give you any reading. Glad i learned something!

Back on toppic.... a perfect vacuum is 29inhg' (384 in h2o!) average car @ idle makes 14 to 18 inhg below the throttle blades of corse. Those filter minders are set to k&n .74inhg and ford 1.84inhg. Both are very small. But that shows the importance of having absolutly no restriction on the intake side. So with this new info, a inh2o gauge in the air box would give the best measurment.

Thanka for great conversation. Now lets get some testing!

 

[froshy00]

Link to calculator for "in H2O" Left it off last post and can't edit...

Vacuum Conversion Calculator

The following is non topic related and intended for froshy00 LOL

ROFLMAO Yes I still work on carbs, have a dwell meter, adjustable timing light, distributor wrench and all that old stuff.

The Dual Port is for the air box. I installed the Ford AIS Sever Duty system on the truck as it had as good or better air flow and filtration but cost less than the aftermarkets CAI. The second port comes from putting a 4"(might be a 3" it's been 13 years) hole in the drivers side of the air box. Then you install a custom made closed cellular foam grommet between the box and the drivers fender apron. Now the box can pull air from the factory snorkel and from the fender well like the early models.

Also you can do the ZooDad Mod which is pretty simple. The nose of the snorkel is behind the front radiator support drivers side. To get fresh cold air forced into the snorkel you remove the grill and drill 3 2'-2.5" vertical holes in front of the snorkel opening.

Now you have air flow from two areas and forced air into the snorkel.

Ha nice! I work on old stuff all the time, im a mechanic on "modern cars" by day but i like the older stuff for "side work"

Regarding the diesel... i did both those mot realizing it was "a thing" i guess...zoodad i just cut that panel out completly by the radiator.... and i cut up my stock airbox made a cone filter fit and cut the end out toward the fender to try utilize that inlet, no gasket though im not that fancy.

 

[froshy00]

Edit

 

[Oreo]

I'm just an enthusiasts with no training but have some natural mechanical abilities.

I enjoy discussions like these as I to learn and others opinions force me to research and broaden my horizons so to speak. Everything back in the day everything was book learning, word of mouth or trail and error. Today with the internet makes researching thing so much easier and quicker if you have a BS filter. LOL

I'll be ordering AFE Dry S Filter and K&N Filterminder today. Next Friday project.

Process will be to install filterminder and run it for a couple days including several WOT's to see what I get then install the AFE filter and retest.

 

[froshy00]

Its still word of mouth.. just through a computer algorithm! And yes.... lots of bs... this forum isnt bad, maybe the people on here are generally "older" aka more learned.

Glad you are using the k&n minder! Lookong forwaed to your results!

 

[Oreo]

Long road trip today. Ambient temps 83-85 degrees. Captured screens of temps after 3 hours of straight driving. First screen 65mph, second screen 75mph. Largest difference between intake and ITA2 temps was 20 degrees. Will try to get some intown temps in the next couple days.

 

[froshy00]

Is intake like "airbox"

And ita2 intake manifold after turbo and intercooler?

 

[Oreo]

I'm thinking so. I believe our map sensor is also the IAT2 sensor. It's that way on the 3.5L.

 

[froshy00]

Hmm interesting.