[Engineer]

I'm tossing around the idea of buying the HP Tuners system. I'm not looking to do anything dramatic, I'm not competing with anyone. But I am always very interested in any kind of technology, and I would much rather have visibility and control over everything inside my car, than not.

For those of you who have bought this system, how hard was it to get started? What is involved? I saw it had some nasty licensing garbage attached to it, what's the deal there? Like do you have to pay every time you adjust a value? If it's a one time deal that's cool but if it's every year or every time you change anything I'm not interested.

Just looking for info and advice. I'd obviously step very carefully.

 

[Skipe]

Its a nice system, one time pay. Here's the just of how it works, You buy a HP Tuners MPVI2 there $300.00, then you buy the credits need for what ever make n model you intend to tune. It all depends on make n model far as how many credits needed to tune a specific car. You'll need two credits for a 2013 to 2020 Fusion, each credit cost $49.98. So 400 buck invested, that's it. You can change things as much as you want ( write as many tunes as you want ), I,ve written about 200 for my 17 Sport. Now here's a cool thing about the MPVI2, you can add more cars to it. You buy the MPVI2 plug it in your computer that has internet connection, go to HP's site. You sync the interface, but the credits and they are put on the MPVI2, once on it. You take to your car plug it in, read the car and the credits are applied to it, boom you can tune it now. On HP's site you 'll find all the down loads needed on the computer to do it, cool thing about their interface is you can put over a 1000 different cars on it. I bought mine back in May, then later a guy at work wanted me to tune his 16 Fusion 2.0 eco. I have him give me a 100 bucks for the credits, one there on the MPVI2 I plug it in his car, read it and it's licensed. I can now tune his car also. It eliminates buy a MPVI2 for each car your gonna tune. So say buy a F-150 later on, and want to tune it, you just go to their site buy the needed credit, read it, and your all set. With all this said, you can simply go to their site and look around. They also have a bulletin board that is a good source for info and answers from people that use it on their cars or are tuners. So there ya go, the skinny on HP Tuners.

 

[Skipe]

Far as data logging goes you can build what they call layouts, you make the gauges any size you want long as the fit in the box, your list of PIDs is on the left. You can take most anything in it and put it in gauge form in the box on the right. This is what I use most all the time, I have a laptop with all VCM editor and scanner programs on it. I plug the MPVI2 in the car, it to the laptop, sitting on the passenger seat, fire up the scanner app, hit start logging and i,m off.

 

[Engineer]

Okay this is seriously cool. Thank you @Skipe ! I think this is the direction I'm going to go. I'll need to get a detailed PID reference and some good docs for what the values are (defaults, normal ranges, etc.) But this is definitely the kind of thing I was looking for. Thank you for the detailed posts!

 

[Skipe]

Best thing I can say to do is go to their site and look around, you can get a better idea of what I,m talking about. PIDS are easy, once you plug it in and your laptop has the data log app going, you just go through the list of PIDS, not all are supported but what I found was that the Sport had a ton compared the the 2016 I,ve been tuning for the guy at work. I cant even get boost pressure with his which makes no sense to me considering how many there are out there being tuned. Far as making changes to the tune goes its a learning curve, Ford's system is pretty complicated, but it like anything, just takes time to figure out. The most importaint thing you have to do once you have the car read and a stock tune generated is to save it in a few different places for back up. All things start with that tune, you can make changes to it, go to save as, name it anything you want. IF it needs tweaked, just go back in, load it, make your changes and do save as again or just write over it and it keeps the same name. I tend to keep making new ones as I go, but sometimes I will just write over it, and test it. If I find something needs attention, I go back and hit it again, but I,ll make it a new tune that way if it's a fail, I can go back to one before it, re flash the car and I,m back where I was. So your just building off the stock tune, so over time you could make a hundred changes to it. Now say you want to start from scratch, you load the stock tune back into the editor program and start over with clean slate. I have trans only tunes that I call base tunes, I load it then go in and make my engine changes building a new tune, I have some engine only tunes, but I found it was better to address the trans as a single part over the engine because getting the trans is a lot harder than the engine, at least for me. Big thing with engine is timing and limits. Torque is the thing you deal with the most to gain power. raise your limits, and your driver demand tables. Those changes are what wakes up a ecoboost.

 

[metroplex]

Good lord Skipe I don't have that many gauges on my VCM Scanner. LOL. I normally test/tune and then don't bother looking at it once its tested. Also you don't want that many PIDs all at once for tuning because it slows down the refresh rate. For casual glancing/observation while driving, it's not a problem.

I first started using HPTuners for my 2009 Cobalt in 2013 or so. I've been using SCT Advantage since 2003/2004 for Fords. I accidentally stumbled upon HPTuners starting with Ford support sometime in 2015 or so and switched over to see how it worked compared to SCT since my Mustang GT was supported. I noticed right away HPTuners was much faster and easier to use than SCT. In fact, I was able to create a new MAF transfer function for my S197 GT and the Cobalt SS Turbo using HPTuners. It was possible to do with LiveLink (SCT's version of VCM Scanner) but it was just slow and cumbersome.

However, HPTuners has slowly become more and more like SCT. I believe MPVI2 has to be connected to the computer like a dongle, much like SCT with their dongle. HPTuners is now charging a bit more credits per vehicle for the new strategies (like 2019 Edge ST, 2020 Explorer ST). The older vehicles like the 2017 Fusion Sport don't require the MPVI2 or the extra cost for credits. They were encouraging everyone to turn in their MPVI1's to upgrade to the 2. I kept mine because it still works fine.

The downside to HPTuners is that often with new strategies or less popular strategies, they dont' have all of the parameters defined. I think I asked HPTuners to add the Transfer Case Fluid temperature PID over a year ago, and recently got a message from Eric Brooks saying it was added... LOL They are solid guys but if a high priority project pops up (like the Ford GT when it debuted) they'll focus on that and not so much on lower priority projects. I heard and recall SCT defining almost all of the parameters up front but not sure if they still do that. It took over a year before they have the Fusion Sport parameters more or less fully defined, but I noticed they are missing a bunch of parameters for the latest calibration (the 2019 -JC strategy).

HPTuners does let people share their tunes with one another without having to pay. You just need to pay in order to save custom tunes and to flash them to your car but you pay once. I believe if you have your PCM updated by the dealer, then it is considered a new strategy and you have to pay again to tune it. SCT locks you into the exact strategy for your exact vehicle, so I couldn't share the base tune with anyone unless they paid to access that particular VIN/strategy. Also you need to pay $400+ for a tuner per vehicle even with the Pro Racer Package. A single MPVI1 or MPVI2 is what you need to tune all your vehicles.

One thing I have observed since working with EcoBoost is that the Ford tuning community is very tight lipped with minimal care to share information. There are only a handful of folks willing to help. The GM community was quite the opposite. They had working setups for the Cobalt SS Turbo and other vehicles and lots of sharing of information. It might be different now but I just remember that when starting with EcoBoost it was a lot of guesswork and grass roots sharing. Now everyone and their brother has a tuning by John Smith business, so I guess competition is fierce.

 

[Skipe]

I,ll agree on people being tight lipped in the Ford community, just look at the HP board. You get a lot of people posting threads and not one reply with any help. I just wish they would populate the X n Y cells in the trans adaptive tables, LOL. I guess that's been a on going request for years, like ten now, LOL. I have Cobb on my 2013 Fusion 2.0 eco, its a nice tool, but there again it's like SCT. They wont let you share tunes, plus they dropped the Fusion altogether, and even then only supported it in 13 n 14. SO no more updates or tech service, your on your own with them now. I was lucky enough to buy the Ford Race tuning soft wear before they pulled it due to all kids that bought it and ended up grenading their engines, they went on to blame Cobb for their own screw up. So now you do a all day web class, get certified and you can then buy it. Back then I never knew about HP Tuners, had I. I would have never drop the money on Cobb I can tell you, I have close to 750 in everything with them. HP for the money is a way better product price wise. Far as my data log goes, I know I,ve got way too many pids going at once, I need to take the time and build a new layout, the default is ok, but it's kinda lacking things I find importaint to watch. This layout has been my go to for a while now, I do a lot of test runs, get some miles on a new tune, go home, move it to my flash then plug it into the desk top where I can really see what's going on. Other nice thing is you can buy one MPVI2 and tune as many different cars as you wish, just have to buy the need credits for each one. I have noticed their credit counts going up on some of the newer models they're now supporting like the 2020 Explorer ST. Anyway you look at it, HP is still a good platform for tuning, but I have heard there are others, that are better. Or at least some people think so, I,m quite happy with it, and see no reason to switch to something else far as my Sport goes. The 13 may get switched at some point, but since I,ll be selling it as it is, I may not do anything with other than some de tuning so the next owner doesnt blow the damn thing up.

 

[metroplex]

I believe the rows are transmission oil temperature and the columns are RPM. I've experimented with those tables and don't recall any significant findings.
The worst classes are the Tuning School. OMG their initial EcoBoost classes were an absolute joke!
The MPVI2 is neat, and I tried one but still like my MPVI1. If I ever have the need for a MPVI2 (which would be tuning for a newer Ford like 2019-up) then I'll grab one with at least 4 Ford Credits to save a few bucks. I still have a bunch of GM credits from when I bought the package for the Cobalt SS Turbo.

 

[Skipe]

Yeah, that was what Murfie said.

 

[Skipe]

Those tables do help, but if you take to much out it will make the trans shift weird. Right now I,ve got mine working really well.

 

[metroplex]

I opted not to mess with those too much because I was told the Adaptive is really for adjusting to transmission wear, not so much for adapting to your driving style.

 

[Engineer]

I opted not to mess with those too much because I was told the Adaptive is really for adjusting to transmission wear, not so much for adapting to your driving style.

Do any of you guys that are using HPT use the "Pro Features"? Looks like mostly analog signal reporting but I don't see a list of inputs or anything. Getting ready to buy and want to make sure I get everything I'm going to want.

I think one of the first things I'll do is set my shifter gear display to always on. I assume that's in there somewhere.

 

[metroplex]

Do any of you guys that are using HPT use the "Pro Features"? Looks like mostly analog signal reporting but I don't see a list of inputs or anything. Getting ready to buy and want to make sure I get everything I'm going to want.

I think one of the first things I'll do is set my shifter gear display to always on. I assume that's in there somewhere.

Yes there is a table for that but you can use Forscan to enable it as well based on what I heard.

I have the MPVI 1 Pro and used it with an Innovate wide and. Its great for that type of stuff but if I had to buy a MPVI2 today I'd just get the standard. I never bothered with the onboard datalogging either.

 

[Engineer]

Yes there is a table for that but you can use Forscan to enable it as well based on what I heard.

If there's a way to do that in FORScan I'm not aware of it. I've been up and down FORScan for all kinds of things and changed a lot of them on our cars (especially my FFS), but if there's a way to enable gear shift display in FORScan I've not seen it.

I think (and this is just speculation here) that the problem isn't that the IPC won't display it, but that the TCM isn't sending it. That's why a tuner is needed, because you can't write to the TCM or PCM without a tuner. If it were just the IPC not displaying the data, you could use FORScan to turn it on, but I think the signaling for current gear just isn't getting sent by the TCM unless you've commanded a shift with paddle shifters. In the absence of the data, the IPC just doesn't display it, I think.

I'd love to be wrong about this. I'd be absolutely thrilled if someone found an address and a value in FORScan to enable that in the IPC, for instance. But I don't think that's what's happening.

 

[Engineer]

Pulled the trigger on this today.

Got the non-pro-features kit (couldn't think of any realistic situation where I'd need to measure analog inputs--if that changes I'll just order the pro add-on but I don't expect it will).

MPVI2 with 2 credits for now. I thought about ordering a couple credits for my wife's car but then I decided not to because I couldn't think of a good reason to change anything on hers and I'm not going to be poking around her 1.5 just for kicks. So 2 it is, for now. I'm psyched though, can't wait to get it. I keep telling myself I'm not going to change anything though, I just wanted to have the kit so I could look around. I'm still under warranty and I don't want to blow that. But I really do want to see what's going on that I haven't been able to see.

We'll see how long I can resist the urge to play.

 

[Engineer]

This car is getting expensive. Y'all are a bad influence.

 

[Skipe]

You can always buy credits later for another car, no big deal. Nice thing about the MPVI2 is you can use it on as may cars as you pretty much wish. So say you sell your currant car, you can just buy the credits needed for the new one and that's it, so once you buy the MPVI2, you dont need to get another one.

 

[OX1]

Pulled the trigger on this today.

Got the non-pro-features kit (couldn't think of any realistic situation where I'd need to measure analog inputs--if that changes I'll just order the pro add-on but I don't expect it will).

MPVI2 with 2 credits for now. I thought about ordering a couple credits for my wife's car but then I decided not to because I couldn't think of a good reason to change anything on hers and I'm not going to be poking around her 1.5 just for kicks. So 2 it is, for now. I'm psyched though, can't wait to get it. I keep telling myself I'm not going to change anything though, I just wanted to have the kit so I could look around. I'm still under warranty and I don't want to blow that. But I really do want to see what's going on that I haven't been able to see.

We'll see how long I can resist the urge to play.

I give it 3 hours, and only because it'll take you that long to figure out how to use it.

 

[metroplex]

I started with 8 GM credits (part of the MPVI1 Pro package) and ended up only using 4 of them (tuning the Cobalt SS Turbo and 2015 Malibu LTG), then buying all of my Ford credits. For the newer Ford strategies (2019 Edge ST, 2020 Explorer, Ranger, etc...) they are now going up to at least 4 credits per vehicle.

 

[Engineer]

I started with 8 GM credits (part of the MPVI1 Pro package) and ended up only using 4 of them (tuning the Cobalt SS Turbo and 2015 Malibu LTG), then buying all of my Ford credits. For the newer Ford strategies (2019 Edge ST, 2020 Explorer, Ranger, etc...) they are now going up to at least 4 credits per vehicle.

When I bought my MPVI2, the credits were "Universal Credits", so I'm not sure if that's changed, or if they convert somehow at some point to vendor-specific. In any case, I bought two of the universal credits when I bought it. I didn't see an option for Ford-specific credits, so hopefully they were the right thing. If they weren't I'm only out $100 and I'll just buy whatever the right ones are once I figure it out.

I'm hoping the credits attach to my MPVI2 device, so that if, for instance, my laptop dies, I can just reinstall the software and my MPVI2 will still have the credits onboard. We'll see.