[metroplex]

The one thing I haven’t touched is tuning for a different VE model like adding the MKZ 3.0 turbos or changing displacement. So it will be interesting to see what is involved.

 

[Skipe]

I think it's gonna be a hit or miss thing, I,m hoping to get mine on this spring or early summer. Really want a set of down pipes so I can do it all at the same time, and be done with it, then I'll deal with the rest of the exhaust later.

 

[BOT_ROCKET]

Here's a video I found that shows why I personally don't like throttle body injection, especially with just one nozzle.

This is a blown LS so the blower would distribute the spray a lot better, but if you imagine that sprayer on our intake manifold, you can imagine how the first cylinders would get most of the spray while the back cylinders might not get as much. Conversely, if the nozzle was in the top of the intake, the back cylinders might get a lot more spray than the front cylinders.

 

[Skipe]

The one thing I haven’t touched is tuning for a different VE model like adding the MKZ 3.0 turbos or changing displacement. So it will be interesting to see what is involved.

I'm currently running a tune that I bumped all the tables up 2.5% using the VE calculator. So far I like the results, only reason I messed with it was more of a experiment to see if the air box made much of a difference air flow wise that it would benefit from a little adjustment in the tables.

 

[MY27FUSION]

did you see any air mass difference from the steeda box?

 

[metroplex]

Someone on the FB group said they saw an extra 5 lb/min when they used it with the MKZ 3.0 turbos. But otherwise with the stock turbos that max out at 41-44 lb/min, the stock airbox and paper panel filter are more than adequate. The MKZ 3.0 turbos should flow 55 lb/min up to 60 lb/min.

 

[Skipe]

I dont have data for the stock box, but it wouldnt be hard to get it either. Kinda curious what it shows between the two.

 

[maydk65]

I think Oreo has a whole thread comparing the stock air box and the Steeda CAI

 

[metroplex]

I think someone posted some data log and it was a PITA to read. HPtuners VCM Scanner is much easier to use.

 

[Shawnski]

No hard data, but anecdotally, I had my MKZ turbos put on in the winter, so I was running my stock airbox with aFe panel filter. When springtime came I threw the Steeda CAI on, and I felt a noticeable improvement in performance. But when summer hit and the air was hot, I found no difference between the Steeda and the stock box. By that time I’d also tracked my transmission issues to the leaking case, so I had to be able to check trans fluid regularly, which meant going with the stock airbox throughout the race season. I threatened to run them back to back and see what happened but I never did.

 

[MY27FUSION]

Made a street pass this morning with no tune and my IAT2 temps were 20 degrees under ambient with the 100% methanol , the car felt quick with 14.7 psi boost ran a 13.44 at 106 definitely not the same car when I run 22 psi boost lol

 

[Skipe]

Only 22 lbs,

 

[metroplex]

With the MKZ 3.0 turbos, 22-23 lb would be pushing the turbine speeds way high for not a whole lot of air mass flow gain. The Explorer ST turbos are different, but it follows a similar trend.

BTW have any of you played around with injector timing? Based on some experimenting I found there is a correlation with the mode 6 misfire count and the timing settings. What's confusing is how Ford jumps between crank angles and other measurement methods. The injector timing tables allow for values between 180*-540* so I'm assuming that is crank angles due to the exhaust and intake strokes inside this window. Going lower in value resulted in a rougher idle with more misfires on cyl 4 and 6. Going higher in value seemed to smooth it out and reduce the misfires. I'm sure there's some room to play with this at the WOT region as well.

 

[Skipe]

I usually bump my max up to around 300 330 degrees, but haven't messed with injector timing, yet. Far as boost goes, I have logged 27 ish lbs, and had turbine rpm up around 260,000 rpm's. Yeah I know that's way the hell over rpm max for the turbos, on top of the fact your not moving any more air at those RPM's than down around 200 210,000 rpm's which seems to be about the " safe limit " for them so I have read.

 

[metroplex]

I usually bump my max up to around 300 330 degrees, but haven't messed with injector timing, yet. Far as boost goes, I have logged 27 ish lbs, and had turbine rpm up around 260,000 rpm's. Yeah I know that's way the hell over rpm max for the turbos, on top of the fact your not moving any more air at those RPM's than down around 200 210,000 rpm's which seems to be about the " safe limit " for them so I have read.

Garrett considers the 58% efficiency curve to be the threshold of the choke line so I typically use that and with 200,000 RPM as the compressor speed limit. If you could squeeze like another 5 lb/min then it'd be worth it, but you really don't get that much more air mass pushing the turbo that hard. Generally speaking the MKZ 3.0 and Explorer ST 3.0 turbos would max out around 55 lb/min but someone was saying they were seeing 60 lb/min. I suppose if you had a much larger intercooler to reject all that heat, and you're OK with pushing the piston ring lands and very high turbine wheel speeds then go for it.

 

[MY27FUSION]

with my old can tune it would see 21.4 to 22.4 psi boost pressure on a E30 tune

 

[Skipe]

Big thing I always tell the kids that think boost is the all mighty power maker , higher boost fill the cylinders faster, but air flow is where it's at. Take a turbo that pushes 60 lbs of air at 22 lbs versus the one that only can muster 40 at 30lbs, the the 60 at 22 will make more power and your engine will be a lot happier in the long run. I,d have to find the spec sheet for my Garrett that I put on th e13 2.0 I have, but it has some impresive flow numbers. It's a ATP Garrett 2867R, wish they would make some for the 2.7 3.0 platform in a dual ball bearing center section. Be pricey as hell though, considering I paid close to two grand for the ATP on my 13, but it was worth it. Only issue I have is I never really tuned it for the turbo as good as I should have. I may still dump the Cobb and switch it to HP Tuners so I can tune it better

 

[metroplex]

Well yes, you want air mass flow not boost!

 

[Skipe]

Yup. one reason we were always running compounds on the diesels, more air, and boost, but not out of hand with boost. A 7.3 with stock head bolts were good to about 40 lbs. Throw some studs on it, and you could go stupid high to the point the block comes apart. I have seen the end result of that too. Guy with a OBS truck running the 1/4 hit 101 lbs and split the block into three pieces, made quite a mess. We still talk about it 15 years later almost, LOL.

 

[metroplex]

LOL 100 psi diesel: