[weasel318]

Hi Oreo! I am wondering if you can help me with my P04DB code that I am getting for my 2015 Mustang Ecoboost. I know its not a Fusion but it seems like the fusion guys have gotten this code figured out. I am wondering if I can pick your mind and see if I can use the same fix you guys are using for my car. Thank you!

Also sent you a Conversation but not sure if you got it or not.

 

[MY27FUSION]

I had the same problem with my fusion and Oreos tube fixed my car , do you have any upgrades ?

 

[weasel318]

This will be a semi long post.

My car is a 2015 Mustang Ecoboost. Factory Tune. It had an Airaid Intake Tube and a K&N filter.

Then I added the Ford Performance Passenger Side Catch Can/Oil Separator (This is when the P04DB code started cropping up.) (Before I didn't log it to see if my Airaid and K&N filter caused any P04DB codes, but it was on the car for a good 5k miles) (Passenger Side is clean side PCV for the Mustang)

So after install of the FP Catch Can coupled with my Airaid and K&N filter I was getting the P04DB code whenever I stepped on it and got above 2.8K RPM. If I babied the car and never really push the car above 2.8K RPM the code will never set. So I took off the Airaid since I thought that was causing my problem.

Took Airaid off and reverted back to Factory Intake Tube, I drove it for 100 miles and the code never set. I did beat it on a few times and it never set. However after a day and a couple more miles the code is coming back. With my Factory intake tube if I beat on it it has more leeway compared to the Airaid in terms of for the Airaid I just need to push it above 2.8K RPM once and it will trips the code, for the Factory Intake Tube sometimes it takes two times pushing it over 2.8K RPM before it trips the code but usually it takes 1 time.


So my question is, is this the same problem that might be going on with the you guys' Fusions? From tripping the pending code only if the car is pushed to a higher RPM makes me think its an airflow problem for that sensor on the passenger side PCV tube.

It is also to my understanding that airflow flows both ways in that tube. Underboost the engine has crankcase pressure flowing out of that tube but when its idling or close to it that tube is letting the engine suck in fresh air into the crankcase?

Another question I have is for the OREO fix, how deep does that Code Eliminator Tube extend into the Intake itself? I know the angled side of the eliminator tube is pointed towards the turbo, but how far does the eliminator tube have to be stuck into the Intake tract for this fix to work on your Fusions 2.7T so I can copy and get a similar depth of the eliminator tube I might be making to extend into my Intake Tube.

Thank you guys!


PS> What PID should I be logging to see the airflow? I have been reading the PID for crankcase pressure but I am not sure if its the sensor on the PCV tube? However this PID has volts fluctuting between 3.6 to 4.2 Volts. I am using a bluetooth OBDii scanner coupled to my Iphone with ForScan Lite. Not sure if the reading is accurate when compared to a hardwired OBD. In the Ford shop manual they said the P04DB code only trips when the PID I am looking at goes below 2.5Volts, but from logging I have never seem it dip below 3.6Volts.


Sorry for the long post, thank you again guys!

 

[Skipe]

I have yet to see this code with either of mine, and nether are not really stock.

 

[schwabyschwab19]

Hi Oreo! I am wondering if you can help me with my P04DB code that I am getting for my 2015 Mustang Ecoboost. I know its not a Fusion but it seems like the fusion guys have gotten this code figured out. I am wondering if I can pick your mind and see if I can use the same fix you guys are using for my car. Thank you!

Also sent you a Conversation but not sure if you got it or not.

I have had the same error come up on my 2017 FFS, it has only done it about 3 or 4 times and I have cleared the code each time.

 

[weasel318]

Thank you for the reply guys! I hope Oreo chimes in, he was the one who found the eliminator tube fix.

And mine has done it consistently. I would have to clear the code every 20 miles or less if i push the car.

Skipe and Schwaby, I am guessing you didnt use the eliminator tube right?

 

[schwabyschwab19]

No I did not, luckily it has not came back on in about 2 months. I am curious what eliminator tube is all about, if it does it again maybe I also need to learn about the eliminator tube my self.

 

[weasel318]

ECOPOWER Parts Intake Piping Installed

Just got my set of EPP intake piping , I must say the quality is very nice , install was a mofo thank god I had a lift to use , the fire wall side pipe was not to bad make sure you have some long extensions to get access to the clamp nuts , I was hoping for some turbo suction noise but to no...

www.fusionsportforums.com

post 13. its a good read

 

[Oreo]

Well the catch can could be causing the issue or at least contributing. During my testing of the Tracy Lewis Signature Dual Valve CC setup I was getting the P04DB codes. We found it was a check valve issue that was letting boost back into the block. With my 93 octane tune on my Sport I was actually able to blow out the internal checks on the standard valves. This resulted in Tracy going back and developing the HP version that is recommended (mandatory as far as I am concerned) for Sport installations. WhiIe haven't seen a FP CC but I would assume it doesn't have a check valve and solely relies on the PCV valve to prevent boost to enter the engine. The slightest leak or pulse can set the code. Adding the CC could be effecting how the PCV valve works now.

The air box you have could also be having an effect. I could replicate the issue like clock, all it took was a quick hard one and off throttle and it would set the code. I didn't have a if I ran over 2.8k issue. Can you explain exactly how you generate the code?

As Don noted in the thread you mentioned we were seeing the issue on open air boxes with the EPP pipes. Guys running the factory air box or the CAI with a sealed lid didn't generate the code. in testing we could see a slight spike generated with the on/off throttle that was setting the code on the MAP sensor. The eliminator stopped the pulse.

As far as length I found that it needs to be at least half way into the intake pipe. I actually designed mine full length so it touched the fall interior pipe wall and slow cut it back until it started generating the code again and then stepped back for my final length. Also as you stated the opening needs to face the turbos.

 

[metroplex]

I heard that the 2.7 EcoBoost engines have a sensor in the cleanside tube that monitors for any kind of wrong flow/pressure, like say your PCV is allowing boost to blow through, it will set off P04DB. The Gen 1 transverse 3.5 EcoBoost on the SHO/Explorer Sport has a simple cleanside tube (no sensors) up until 2016. I was at the dragstrip and a 2016 SHO was running 1+ second slower than my 12.4 (he claimed it was stock at 13.5 seconds) so we chatted and I snapped a few pics of his engine pay. I saw a sensor inline with the cleanside PCV tube and didn't know what it was, but I know my 2017 Fusion Sport has it. Reading the thread below, I discovered it was to monitor for any possible blowby under boost.

This probably won't help the OP, but the factory PCV is a very good check valve. I stumbled across this long thread recently but it is chock full of good information and affirms why we don't need catch cans. When I ran a can on my SHO and Fusion Sport, it either caught nothing, or only condensed volatile fumes in the winter. I tested it by lighting a match in the contents and it vaporized POOF almost immediately. That stuff would normally just burn off.

Which PCV valve do you use?

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10162078-0001.pdf This list for 18+ but it also relates to 15+ F150s in a way. Rock Auto needs to update their catalog. Tasca also lists the brown as the only PCV valve. That valve they sent you is for 3.5L Flex NON Turbo. You need the PCV valve for...

www.f150ecoboost.net

Basically there are only 2 types of PCV valves in use on EcoBoost V6 engines: black (EV-289 for very early 3.5L truck engines) and brown (EV-290/EV-297/EV-298). According to the thread the black/EV-289 was designed for high performance applications but if you drive it very conservatively, fuel dilution will be a problem. Ford found that most truck owners didn't drive the vehicles aggressively enough so they went to a higher flow (brown) PCV valve to reduce fuel dilution. They stopped using EV-289 on the F-150s sometime mid-2014. Interesting tidbit from that thread is the Hellcats use the same MPC manufactured black EV-289 PCV but with a threaded design instead of the locking bayonet on the Fords. In the first page of the thread he took apart the PCV to show the internals.

I used my lung boost to check for leaks and the EV-290/EV-297 basically stop almost all the flow except for a new EV-297 I have sitting on my desk. I ordered some EV-289 to check them out.

 

[Oreo]

Metroplex there are a lot of contributing factors as to why CC collections vary. From what I have seen the biggest difference is that people run a single valve CC and catch little or nothing, while those of us that run a dual valve setup catch a LOT of oil /contaminated fluids. In my opinion this is due to the fact that the single side CC system shuts down while the engine is under heavy load/boost compared to the dual valve that continues to allow the engine to breath during these times. The amount of fluid I have caught has been amazing. One of our FB members drained his Dual Valve CC twice during an evening of 1/4 mile runs. The CC was almost full each time.

Use of a CC is definitely a personal preference. Ford has added a second injector to combat this issue on newer EcoBoosts. This injector is basically used to wash the back side of intake valve and help to cool the valve which cut down on the coking issue that caused so many issues on early models EcoBoosts.

I'm passing 114K mile mark on my Sport this week and she runs like new, idles great and I hope to get another 100K out of her.

The clean side does have a MAP sensor and from our data logging it takes very little pressure change to set the code. When I was logging I use kPa values to see the changes of the clean side map sensor.

 

[weasel318]

As far as length I found that it needs to be at least half way into the intake pipe. I actually designed mine full length so it touched the fall interior pipe wall and slow cut it back until it started generating the code again and then stepped back for my final length. Also as you stated the opening needs to face the turbos.

Alright so I will experiment with it. I bought an aFe Vent tube which is like the one you designed but for an F150. Its way too long for my Mustang Ecoboost Intake tube. So I will cut it to fit. Would the tube sticking inside the intake tract for more than half the airflow tract cause flow problems?

As for your 2.8k RPM question, basically if I hard throttle the car once above 2.8K RPM it would set the code. However if I hard throttle only a bit without reaching 2.8K RPM it usually doesnt set.

I have also experimented with the "sealed vs unsealed" air box idea. So My Ecoboost Mustang has a closed air box from the factory. I was running an Airaid Tube but reverted to stock to try to solve the P04DB problem. With the stock box I ran the K&N Filter and it didn't seal the Air box completely. It was a loose fit. With the Stock Intake Tube with the K&N filter I was still throwing the code, however it seems with the stock intake tube with a Ford Factory air filter, the code hasn't set yet. Even after a few hard on/off throttle situation over 2.8K. I will keep driving and be vigilante of the code. Will report back once I know more.


And !Thank You! Oreo for responding and helping me out!

 

[Oreo]

How is their tube designed? I have a slight flair on the back end to help seat the tube in the connection and also keeps it from spinning in the intake tube. As far as for air flow, on the Fusion, the factory inlet tubes were so bent and twisted the replacements allow more volume and smoother air path so in my opinion the eliminator doesn't cause any issues.

With that said my thought process was simular and is why I started with full length eliminator and trimmed it back until I had an issue then went back to my last proven length.

Your testing with the factory box leads me to believe that the tube insert should resolve your issue.

 

[weasel318]

I spoke too soon. Even with the factory filter sealing properly, i am getting the code again now. So back to the drawing board. I didnt have the eliminator tube in yet. I bought the aFe one and havent cut it to size yet.

Magnum FORCE Spare Parts - Vent Tube Insert

here is how it looks like Oreo. I will probably start this weekend on trimming it back.

I might go back to factory PCV clean side tubing first with my airaid to make sure its not something else causing the problem. Then i will add back the can catch and do the eliminator tube mod to see if it works or not.

 

[metroplex]

I'm passing 114K mile mark on my Sport this week and she runs like new, idles great and I hope to get another 100K out of her.

The clean side does have a MAP sensor and from our data logging it takes very little pressure change to set the code. When I was logging I use kPa values to see the changes of the clean side map sensor.

So what is your dual valve catching? Engine oil or fumes/moisture? Under boost, the PCV should prevent almost all backflow into the crankcase.

What PID are you using the log the clean side sensor? I only see TIP, MAP, and Engine Crankcase (never saw this one before until now).

I may give the EV-289 a try and see if it resolves the idling/misfiring issues, or perhaps give the Redline SI-1 a try. Doing some searching, I see a lot of 2.7 EcoBoost truck owners with similar problems and the PEA-based cleaners seemed to help.

I personally feel the intake valve deposit issue is overblown. I know a few GTDI owners with over 100k miles that never used a catch can and their engines idle smooth and run just fine, no loss of boost or knocking etc...

And all of the truck threads on Facebook showing what their Tracy Lewis cans were catching basically showed moisture/crankcase fumes that condensed - nothing like pure engine oil in what I was catching from my S197 GT engine. The cans just condense that hot mix, had you not used a can it would have performed normally, combusting the vaporized fumes. If you read the thread I posted above, it speaks specifically to this.

 

[Oreo]

Metroplex it appears to be oil vapors. I'm reimaging my workstation but will see if I can find the Blackstone data result from the sample I submitted.

Here are pics of one of the first collections in a water bottle then my biggest collection which was for submittal to Blackstone. Didn't expect it to be a large as it was and made a bit of a mess in the driveway.

Included bottle size for reference.

 

[Oreo]

 

[metroplex]

I know Blackstone is reported to not read fuel dilution correctly.

 

[weasel318]

Hi Oreo! I just installed the angled tubing into my PCV port on my intake and my CEL still comes back on with my Airaid on. Does the orientation matter? As in do I have to mess with how its oriented towards the turbo? Like certain angles works better than others?

 

[Oreo]

Yes the slant of the tubing has to be facing down pipe toward the turbo.