[19sport]

Also

I sent this E-mail to Torrie

...

Is this parameter adjustable with SCT and can I get it set to a longer time?

Definitely let us know what Torrie says. This is something I would like to change as well.

 

[OX1]

Definitely let us know what Torrie says. This is something I would like to change as well.

Crap, I meant to post that in the brake boost thread. Maybe a mod can move it.

 

[OX1]

Threw 3 codes at the end of the run (cylinder #1/#5/random misfire) that put me in limp mode. But I think it was right around the 1/4mi mark.

So I ended up ordering one. Only thing I'm not crazy about it having to stick on a metal plate somewhere.
Anyone just mount it to the roof of your car? (or would it blow off).

 

[Hootushead]

I’m guessing this has something to do with the misfire.
Since the CEL/limp mode yesterday the car will shudder/stutter under heavy load but no further CEL/codes. I pulled plugs today and found these 2 burnt up plugs with the rest looking good. I replaced those two with some old plugs I had laying around but it still shudders. I’m planning on ordering a new set of plugs. But does any have any experience with this or advice?

 

[Engineer]

View attachment 27436 I’m guessing this has something to do with the misfire.
Since the CEL/limp mode yesterday the car will shudder/stutter under heavy load but no further CEL/codes. I pulled plugs today and found these 2 burnt up plugs with the rest looking good. I replaced those two with some old plugs I had laying around but it still shudders. I’m planning on ordering a new set of plugs. But does any have any experience with this or advice?

Perhaps this is me being naive, but I'd be afraid of fragments left behind in my cylinder. Did you get a good look in there?

 

[Engineer]

So I ended up ordering one. Only thing I'm not crazy about it having to stick on a metal plate somewhere.
Anyone just mount it to the roof of your car? (or would it blow off).

I'm thinking 3M Command Strips maybe on the dash. Of course it gets crazy hot down here in the summer so I'm not sure. But the Dragy absolutely seems the most accurate, by far, of any of these I've seen.

 

[maydk65]

I'm with Engineer, I would be afraid of fragments in the cylinder or stuck in the exhaust valve. If there are pieces, would also be afraid of scoring on the cylinder walls.

 

[Hootushead]

This is the best pics I could get inside the cylinders. I’m guessing I’d have to remove heads to get a look at the exhaust valves.

 

[maydk65]

Picture from each cylinder? That just doesn't look right to me, but I am a long way from an expert.

 

[19sport]

Yeah, I would expect to see some scoring in the cylinder wall or pitting in the piston crown unless the electrodes simply melted or you got lucky and the chunks were blown out the exhaust valve. Then again, you have the turbos downstream so...

Bad deal man. Crazy pics. I'm surprised it ran as well as it did like that. I suppose you could always do a leakdown test to see if there was any damage. Had you regapped the plugs in the past? I wonder if that caused enough weaknesss in the electode to cause this.

 

[Engineer]

Yeah, I would expect to see some scoring in the cylinder wall or pitting in the piston crown unless the electrodes simply melted or you got lucky and the chunks were blown out the exhaust valve. Then again, you have the turbos downstream so...

Bad deal man. Crazy pics. I'm surprised it ran as well as it did like that. I suppose you could always do a leakdown test to see if there was any damage. Had you regapped the plugs in the past? I wonder if that caused enough weaknesss in the electode to cause this.

100% agree with @19sport on all of this. The thought about the turbos made me cringe a little. You're not getting any P0299s are you? That would be a really bad sign if you did. I'd think if there was bad enough fin damage you'd get that.

If you're not getting DTCs on the turbos though maybe just count your blessings in that regard at least.

 

[Engineer]

Any chance you're running a bit too lean? I'm no expert on this but I think with the damage to the spark plugs that you showed, I'd be wondering if your mixture is too lean.

 

[Hootushead]

Those pics were just of the 2 cylinders with the bad plugs. It hasn’t thrown any codes since. I’m not sure about running lean as my BDX hasn’t been able to upload data logs for awhile. But I’ve been on the same tune since August. Those Ford plugs came pre-gapped at 28. I ordered a new set from Torrie so we’ll see if that helps the stutter under heavy load.

 

[Engineer]

View attachment 27436 I’m guessing this has something to do with the misfire.
Since the CEL/limp mode yesterday the car will shudder/stutter under heavy load but no further CEL/codes. I pulled plugs today and found these 2 burnt up plugs with the rest looking good. I replaced those two with some old plugs I had laying around but it still shudders. I’m planning on ordering a new set of plugs. But does any have any experience with this or advice?

Just had another thought on this. I know you said you can't datalog right now, but do you have a way to pull just a little bit of timing? You say it's doing the shudder under heavy load. I assume that means part-throttle heavy load, not so much WOT. If it's part-throttle, especially, is it possible you might have just a bit too aggressive timing for the conditions (fuel, temp, whatever)? I'm sure you did the datalogging originally and it was solid, but what are the chances something changed? Fuel quality, for instance? Back in August I think you were probably on summer fuel, so maybe it's a winter blend thing?

Just tossing this stuff out there in case any of it helps. I imagine you're already looking at most/all of this, but if any of it helps, I wanted to at least mention it.

 

[maydk65]

Here is something on Vibration and Ground Strap Vibration

 

[Engineer]

Here is something on Vibration and Ground Strap Vibration

That's a really cool article @maydk65 ! What struck me as really strange about the plugs @Hootushead posted on here though is it almost looks like the ground electrode snapped in half. It doesn't look like it broke at a weld, but like the electrode was broken in the middle. I'm honestly not sure what would have caused that. Good article though, and a great reminder of how important the right torque is on installing plugs, for instance. I'm just at a complete loss as to why those plugs he posted look the way they do though. I'd think it would take a tremendous amount of force/temperature/something. Or else they had maybe small fractures in them from when they were gapped, like someone on here I think mentioned earlier.

 

[Engineer]

Some information I found about reading spark plugs:

sparkplugreading

 

[maydk65]

Here is another forum with a similar issue and photos really look similar.
Broken Ground Strap

 

[Engineer]

Here is another forum with a similar issue and photos really look similar.
Broken Ground Strap

Wow those pics are identical. Broken right in the middle of the ground electrode.

Here's a scary quote from that thread:

This happens from severe detonation. More than likely there is a reason for it. I had a similar event and 500 miles later a piston went. After pulling the exhaust it was obvious that the turbine had suffered damage from the piston coming apart.

In short your engine is most likely on borrowed time. I would highly suggest pulling it apart before you cause yourself more money when the engine decides to go and more than likely take everything with it.

Also this, also from that thread, evidence of a lean condition:

During normal combustion, a flame kernal forms at the spark plug gap and spreads smoothly throughout the combustion chamber, raising the temperature and pressure which results in work being done on the piston.

During detonation things start out similarly; spark occurs, kernal established and flame front moving outward. However, the difference is that as the pressure & temperature rises, the unburnt mixture ahead of the flame front reaches an energy level suitable for it to all combust at once (i.e. explode), causing massive temperature and pressure spikes. This can happen if the fuel has a low activation energy (i.e. low octane) or is excessively lean (combustion temperature is too high.) Each of these can be exacerbated by high boost levels.

Lean mixtures are especially bad because once all the fuel is consumed you've got a bunch of high-temperature, highly energetic oxygen just looking for something to oxidize; plug tips and electrodes, valve margins and piston crowns are often victims.

Bottom line: I think your issues were caused by too little fuel, not too much.

@Hootushead you may have serious detonation going on. You're going to need to get to the cause of this pretty quick or you might get some real damage here.

I'd say you need to get some data logging going but you should definitely read that article @maydk65 posted.

 

[Engineer]

One other point here: The fact that you have not just one, but two, spark plugs with broken ground electrodes like that tells me this probably isn't a one-time thing. Which makes me think timing or bad fuel or lean mixture or something like that, a bigger deal than just a one-time defect with a single plug, for instance. It's not certain, but I think something is likely really wrong here.

Also, this from Bosch (I'd put the link in but it's giving me trouble getting it):

Heavy wear on ground electrode
Cause: Aggressive fuel and oil additives. Unfavorable flow conditions in combustion chamber, possibly as a result of combustion deposits. Engine knock. Overheating has not taken place.
Effects: Misfiring, particularly during acceleration (ignition voltage no longer sufficient for the large electrode gap). Poor starting.