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Anecdotal, but wouldn’t the “ESC disabled“ or something message on the dash along with the “T/C off” message and icon? I know whenever I reflash a tune with my Livernois Calibrator it puts up a message on my dash to “service stability control” so I’m thinking there’s some preprogrammed warnings in there somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
Anecdotal, but wouldn’t the “ESC disabled“ or something message on the dash along with the “T/C off” message and icon? I know whenever I reflash a tune with my Livernois Calibrator it puts up a message on my dash to “service stability control” so I’m thinking there’s some preprogrammed warnings in there somewhere.
HI @Shawnski under what conditions are you thinking of that happening though? I think if you shut off the ESC you should get the dash light. The only way to avoid that, that I know of, would be maybe a tune shutting it off. They might be able to turn it off without the dash light.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I'm not out at my car at the moment but now that I think about this, you might be able to shut the ESC off using the IPC. But you'd get the dash light if you did. It would be in the manual though if we can do that.
 

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Yes, like @maydk65 said a minute ago it's a front-biased system. If you've got good traction up front and you're not getting into the throttle hard, it'll stay mostly up front. But if you start to lose traction or you get into the throttle, it'll start pushing up to 50% of the power back to the rears so your power per tire is kept down, and it doesn't into your available traction so much. It does respond very quickly either way, so even though it's front-biased, the AWD will kick in the rears as needed immediately, to the degree needed for the situation.

What it doesn't give is the side-to-side (beyond the brake-based torque vectoring up front), and it also doesn't give a rear bias for if you want to break the rear loose and drift or something. But in my opinion for pretty much any reasonable (and a lot of unreasonable) driving it does a perfectly fine job. I'd argue even a pretty good job, given the type of car it is, and the designed purpose of the car. But that's just me.
To add to this, I read somewhere that the AWD system in these cars doesn't need to wait for the front wheels to lose traction before kicking in the rears (more). It uses all sorts of data to try to predict when you might need the extra traction from AWD and starts sending power to the back before you actually need it. I believe this to be true, just based on personal experience with this car - there are times when I give it just a little throttle, certainly not enough to overwhelm the front tires, and yet the car immediately sends power to the back.

As far as drifting goes, it certainly won't do it in the dry, but I've gotten it sideways on snow. By far the biggest challenge with sliding the Sport around in the snow is the intrusive stability control that can't be turned off. As far as I can tell, it lets you go sideways as long as you stay on the throttle, but the second you back off it shuts down the fun.
 

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HI @Shawnski under what conditions are you thinking of that happening though? I think if you shut off the ESC you should get the dash light. The only way to avoid that, that I know of, would be maybe a tube shutting it off. Thebes they might be able to turn it off without the dash light.
I was directing that comment to Maydk65 question does turning off T/C also turn off ESC. I’m pretty sure Ford’s (and probably any manufacturers) liability lawyers make sure the engineers protect the stability control functions from outside manipulation. I’ve also experienced traction sent immediately to the rear at the drag strip and in deep snow. It seems like she T/C is turned off, the computer is even more eager to send power back and forth to find traction. I know our system isn’t the most advanced but I’ve found it to be very very capable.
 
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To add to this, I read somewhere that the AWD system in these cars doesn't need to wait for the front wheels to lose traction before kicking in the rears (more). It uses all sorts of data to try to predict when you might need the extra traction from AWD and starts sending power to the back before you actually need it. I believe this to be true, just based on personal experience with this car - there are times when I give it just a little throttle, certainly not enough to overwhelm the front tires, and yet the car immediately sends power to the back.

As far as drifting goes, it certainly won't do it in the dry, but I've gotten it sideways on snow. By far the biggest challenge with sliding the Sport around in the snow is the intrusive stability control that can't be turned off. As far as I can tell, it lets you go sideways as long as you stay on the throttle, but the second you back off it shuts down the fun.
I was going to make a similar comment.
From my experience we don't have the slip and go AWD that most other similar cars have, as well as many SUV's. It is my opinion that the software is programmed to be AWD unless it senses that it doesn't need to be. As an easy example, take the situation when you make a standing start on flat road. The graph shows power to front and rear at the outset. From my experience other AWD doesn't engage the rear unless it senses slip. Really apparent in the winter. Its my opinion Ford did this to combat the torque steer/don't put more than 300Hp through the front wheels issue. I am guessing this is a lot easier than engineering a new front end. With zero supporting data, I'm guessing the system is programmed to prevent front axles seeing more than 250hp.

I can confirm the car does engage inside front brake when cornering on the limit. Unnerving feeling as you have to make steering corrections while sphincter is already clenched enough.

My 2 cents worth is that we have the best AWD compared to our direct comparable vehicles at the time the car was on sale (eg charger, accord or any other CAD40k AWD sedan). Based on the fact it kicks in to balance power as well as slippage, and coupled with the amount of torque our engines have, not many apples to apples cars match it in this regard.
I dont think its fair comparing it to vehicles 15k or more expensive. It would be like trying to compare a Chrysler 200 to ours. Lol.
The T/C is not great and even with it off, it doesn't make much difference as other systems still work to limit instability and slippage. The car in this regard has excellent safety redundancy in normal conditions. Pain if wanting to go a little more old school.
Enjoying the conversation.
 

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Excellent input Fozzy! Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I was going to make a similar comment.
From my experience we don't have the slip and go AWD that most other similar cars have, as well as many SUV's. It is my opinion that the software is programmed to be AWD unless it senses that it doesn't need to be. As an easy example, take the situation when you make a standing start on flat road. The graph shows power to front and rear at the outset. From my experience other AWD doesn't engage the rear unless it senses slip. Really apparent in the winter. Its my opinion Ford did this to combat the torque steer/don't put more than 300Hp through the front wheels issue. I am guessing this is a lot easier than engineering a new front end. With zero supporting data, I'm guessing the system is programmed to prevent front axles seeing more than 250hp.

I can confirm the car does engage inside front brake when cornering on the limit. Unnerving feeling as you have to make steering corrections while sphincter is already clenched enough.

My 2 cents worth is that we have the best AWD compared to our direct comparable vehicles at the time the car was on sale (eg charger, accord or any other CAD40k AWD sedan). Based on the fact it kicks in to balance power as well as slippage, and coupled with the amount of torque our engines have, not many apples to apples cars match it in this regard.
I dont think its fair comparing it to vehicles 15k or more expensive. It would be like trying to compare a Chrysler 200 to ours. Lol.
The T/C is not great and even with it off, it doesn't make much difference as other systems still work to limit instability and slippage. The car in this regard has excellent safety redundancy in normal conditions. Pain if wanting to go a little more old school.
Enjoying the conversation.
I read somewhere that the system in our Fusions considers hundreds of factors every second to make decisions about how to distribute the power. It considers things like acceleration rate, steering wheel position, and other factors. There's a lot going on computer-wise to make all that work.
 

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I read somewhere that the system in our Fusions considers hundreds of factors every second to make decisions about how to distribute the power. It considers things like acceleration rate, steering wheel position, and other factors. There's a lot going on computer-wise to make all that work.
No doubt, I agree and interesting information. The nuance i was theorizing on was I believe our programming is somewhat different to the standard. I havent driven another Ford AWD recently, but the AWDs that I have driven or know about are programmed to sense slip before engaging AWD. I'm going to guess the standard Ford programming is the same as it is the most fuel efficient amongst other reasons. My belief is that the programming in ours is a bit more unique, edge sport and the lincoln equivalents would be the same, due to the power they have put in a front wheel drive donor design. This scenario is the only reason why it is needed to kick in, even with no slippage. If you like, our cars have another level of complexity and have even more calculations and logic ladders.
I agree that there must be some serious computing going on as the system almost needs to predict its needed before its needed to prevent torque steering the car into the wall. With the early focus and fiesta ST's ford had to design a whole new front end to compensate for the power - can't remember exact year but pre-2004. Not sure whether these were in US then. I was living in the UK at the time. AWD solves the issue completely.
 
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I can confirm the car does engage inside front brake when cornering on the limit. Unnerving feeling as you have to make steering corrections while sphincter is already clenched enough.
How did you confirm that?
 

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How did you confirm that?
I'd like to know as well. The Taurus/Explorer have Curve Control that is on the window sticker, but I checked all literature and this isn't on the Fusion. The Taurus and Explorer feel more confident to me around curves even when pushed to the limit. The Fusion Sport always handled weird during entry into the corners.
 

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Besides understeer (this was before big modded rear bar), what do you think it is doing weird here? It felt like the huge pig that it is, and has really bad stock brakes for track use, but otherwise, surprised me how easy it was to get around a race track (obviously not 10/10th's, but well beyond street driving).

Sorry wrong vid. Here is correct link........... (and it's 95 Mg, so it will take a while to download)

 

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I think it handles exactly how I expected a 4000lbs FWD-based sedan to handle prior to owning one. The only thing that makes it stand out in the cornering department above, say, a Honda or a Nissan, is the AWD (that's no small thing, mind you, but it's still pretty much the only thing).
 

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The initial turn in has a lot of understeer for a lightweight 4000 lb sedan and my SHO was 4300 lb and didn't have that same feeling. Using Sport mode in the Fusion Sport helps. My Explorer is 4900 lb and I feel confident pushing it as much as it can with the rather hard Latitude Tour HP tires. The back end of the SHO and Explorer feel like they would want to over rotate more so than the Fusion Sport. The Fusion Sport just doesn't feel right to me. The Explorer ST just blows away all of these vehicles though, driving it feels like breaking the laws of physics. 4800 lb SUV that moves and handles like a smaller vehicle, and the massive brakes work very well.
 

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Well, when you guys are ready to fix the understeer, I showed you how. It now rotates better, the harder you push it. Does Honda or Nissan offer the adj suspension, as that is a huge change in slalom like maneuvers.
 

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Just my 2 cents, but the Explorer ST doesn't have adjustable suspension and it is fine. The ride's actually very good and the handling is amazing for a 4800 lb SUV. The 10 speed shifts so much faster than our 6-speeds like night/day difference... all assuming the Explorer ST you get is built properly. The massaging seats are amazing as well.
 
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