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Discussion Starter #1

I recall someone getting into an argument with me over whether or not Ford took taxpayer dollars in 2009. I distinctly remember reading an article in 2009 about a $6B DoE loan. Free Press takes a more in-depth look into this, and I am glad someone dug into this because all the articles from 2009 have been difficult to find with searches over the years.

 

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In November 2019 Ford had $37.3 billions in cash reserve, but at the end of June 2020 the cash reserve was $25 billions.
It is hard time for car manufacturers.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I read this article some time back about Ford Credit and how its basically keeping the company alive right now.
Ford’s lending arm is generating more profit than ever
Makes sense, that's before the pandemic though. Once the CARES act checks and unemployment starts to dwindle, Ford Credit will feel some pain. There are already signs of people not wanting to make large purchases due to the unknown future.
 

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I recall someone getting into an argument with me over whether or not Ford took taxpayer dollars in 2009. I distinctly remember reading an article in 2009 about a $6B DoE loan. Free Press takes a more in-depth look into this, and I am glad someone dug into this because all the articles from 2009 have been difficult to find with searches over the years.

Hi Metroplex. I believe the discussion you are referring to was with me. The discussion was not whether Ford took "taxpayer dollars". The discussion centered on whether those loans were bailout money as GM and Chrysler had taken. And I provided links to corroborating information from the DOE.

Here is a link to that previous discussion: Huge improvement over Titanium!!!

You stated Ford took DOE loans, but that it was actually "call it what you want" bailout money to stay afloat, like GM and Chrysler needed to do.

I stated (and provided easy to find backup articles from the DOE) which showed Ford did not need bailout money (as they had previously mortgaged their assets) to stay afloat. But yes, they had applied for and accepted government DOE loans to develop higher fuel efficiency vehicles.

As I stated during our previous discussion, there is a big difference between the two points of view. And as I pointed out then, it is not a matter of "call it what you want", it is a matter of call it what it is. It was not "bailout money", as GM and Chrysler had needed.

As you can see from the articles both you and I provided, they were DOE loans to develop higher fuel efficiency vehicles, which was my point of view in the discussion.

Hope that makes the previous discussion clearer. Good luck.
 
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Ok, so my memory wasn't too bad. I'm glad the Free Press picked up this thread. Ford took $6B of taxpayer dollars even when Ford had claimed proudly in the past they never took taxpayer dollars. It just wasn't called TARP bailout funds.
 

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Ok, so my memory wasn't too bad. I'm glad the Free Press picked up this thread. Ford took $6B of taxpayer dollars even when Ford had claimed proudly in the past they never took taxpayer dollars. It just wasn't called TARP bailout funds.
Hi metroplex. Well, you're halfway to the truth. It was not called "TARP bailout funds", because it was not a "bailout". And what Ford said was they did not take TARP or any other bailout money. And they didn't. It was a DoE loan for a specific purpose, to develop fuel efficient vehicle technology and vehicles. And it is a loan that must be paid back. And Ford has been paying it back. On time.

No more a "bailout" than if a student takes a Government backed student loan. Or if a homeowner takes a Government backed home mortgage. Ford did not "take" taxpayer dollars. A loan is not taking.

Ironically, Ford did not need "bailout" money in that time period, because they sold off many assets (Mazda, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin etc.) and mortgaged pretty much the rest (even the Ford name). So they were in good shape compared to GM and Chrysler. And ironically (again) Ford is not in such great shape now, due to some bad management decisions in the last few years. I miss Alan Mulally. ;)

Again, the DoE loan versus TARP bailout discussion is not "call it what you want". It is call it what it is. All the links are there to show the actual facts (our links say the same things). They just have to be read.

Good luck.
 
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Ok, so my memory wasn't too bad. I'm glad the Free Press picked up this thread. Ford took $6B of taxpayer dollars even when Ford had claimed proudly in the past they never took taxpayer dollars. It just wasn't called TARP bailout funds.
I'm not crazy about gov't loans or grants for well over half that are given (could be closer to 90%, if I really followed every one of them), but I'm not going to single out Ford for
taking a big loan from the gov't, when everyone else does too. That to me seems to be a little different than a bailout though.
 

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Ok, so my memory wasn't too bad. I'm glad the Free Press picked up this thread. Ford took $6B of taxpayer dollars even when Ford had claimed proudly in the past they never took taxpayer dollars. It just wasn't called TARP bailout funds.
Yah but they are paying it back. GM just declared bankruptcy and that was that. Debt was gone. I owned GM stock at the time and it literally just disappeared


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