[Franti]

Went to get gas in the snow (about a 1/4 mile round trip), and the car started fish tailing out of the gas station. As soon as it did, a bunch of lights started flashing (service advancetrac message came on) and the traction control lights came on saying it was off. Tried restarting car, lights on again & same error message. Drove home & left it parked.

This car cannot be trusted.

 

[V8FlatHead]

More AI Safety Issues-

Went to get gas in the snow (about a 1/4 mile round trip), and the car started fish tailing out of the gas station. As soon as it did, a bunch of lights started flashing (service advancetrac message came on) and the traction control lights came on saying it was off. Tried restarting car, lights on again & same error message. Drove home & left it parked.

This car cannot be trusted.

<GASP> This is the same phenomena that is also appearing as the "dead battery." This is an "unexpected, adverse emergent AI behavior" that is not uncommon in sensor rich, complex electromechanical (robotics) AI software systems. Looks like Ford is trying to cover up this Artificial Intelligence reality much like Toyota's "floor mats" that caused the WOT events resulting in several deaths.

If you had been in heavy, high speed traffic, fatalities could have occurred. Ford MUST acknowledge this issue in their FS AWD before folks are killed due to an unexpected dead battery or the AWD going haywire very unexpectedly. Ford should be front and center and not hiding behind dealers regarding these life threatening software issues. My company has addressed these kinds of aberrant AI issues for nearly 20 years.

Toyota very quietly patented the fix to the WOT issue that killed several and scared many. Fact.

 

[iahawk]

Toyota very quietly patented the fix to the WOT issue that killed several and scared many. Fact.

How is that fact? 30 NASA engineers found it was driver error.

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/nasalife/features/nesc-toyota-study.html

 

[drbob1]

V8FlatHead, it sounds like you may have an agenda here? There's no clear evidence that this is AI related, at this point. And I have to agree with the other comment, all the reporting on unintended acceleration I've seen has put it down to driver error? Can you give a link to the issues you're talking about?

 

[DaMiFo]

<GASP> This is the same phenomena that is also appearing as the "dead battery." This is an "unexpected, adverse emergent AI behavior" that is not uncommon in sensor rich, complex electromechanical (robotics) AI software systems. Looks like Ford is trying to cover up this Artificial Intelligence reality much like Toyota's "floor mats" that caused the WOT events resulting in several deaths.
If you had been in heavy, high speed traffic, fatalities could have occurred. Ford MUST acknowledge this issue in their FS AWD before folks are killed due to an unexpected dead battery or the AWD going haywire very unexpectedly. Ford should be front and center and not hiding behind dealers regarding these life threatening software issues. My company has addressed these kinds of aberrant AI issues for nearly 20 years.
Toyota very quietly patented the fix to the WOT issue that killed several and scared many. Fact.

Dude, no offense, but there's definitely no "AI behavior" here in these cars. Franti, unfortunately (seriously, I'm sad for you with these issues you've been having) seems to have been given a bad build - possibly a lemon - a problematic car with many issues at this point. Most of us haven't had any issues, aside from the dead batter issues present on many 2017 model Fords and Lincolns due to a poorly programmed module's power-save mode. If we had Fusions randomly yanking the steering-wheel left into walls, or the cars driving away without the owners or the keys inside the cars, I may be agreeing with you.
I went out in the snow and tooled around with a buddy for the day, and I had no such issues. Franti just got a bad example of a Sport, it's not a mass artificial intelligence behavior emergence.

Anyways, good luck with the car. Are you considering contacting Ford for replacement yet?

 

[V8FlatHead]

Yes, drbob1, I do have an agenda:

Safety First!

Most non-AI developers consider AI to "be out there." Ford, and all automakers, have AI all over their cars. Hence the legitimacy of my concern that those with little, or no experience, in sensor rich, complex electromechanical systems under layers of software control will not infrequently mock those concerned about safety due to their own ignorance.

 

[Cobra99]

Yes, drbob1, I do have an agenda:

Safety First!

Most non-AI developers consider AI to "be out there." Ford, and all automakers, have AI all over their cars. Hence the legitimacy of my concern that those with little, or no experience, in sensor rich, complex electromechanical systems under layers of software control will not infrequently mock those concerned about safety due to their own ignorance.

I think your confused on what AI is and just smart programming. AI learns and creates its own 'thoughts' outside of what it's programmed to 'think'. Traction control, stability control, magnetic suspension, even the radio is just software designed to react a certain way when the programming criteria is met. It's smart in that way but not AI. Please stop with this so we can focus on the tasks at hand since your credibility gets smaller and smaller , when your conspiracy theory takes over.

 

[datsunnazi]

 

[kweb88]

Kneel before your robot overlords!

Paranoid much?

Op: sorry to hear about your issue. Hope you get it resolved quickly.

 

[drbob1]

I understand the basic difference between programming and AI and Ford installing AI in a vehicle just doesn't make sense to me. Using it to develop the necessary programming, sure, but then it becomes a cookie cutter thing that's burned into Eprom. There's a small amount of "learning" ones driving style, at least for the last 10 years on most vehicles with computers, but I'm assuming that's reading from tables, based on inputs, not actual machine learning (especially since it's lost every time the CPU is reset, and has to be "learned" again). So, where in this system of interconnected computers is there an actual AI?

 

[bigblueshock]

I didn't even fish tail in the snow with my current RWD car.

Yeah if I give it heavy throttle I will fish tail, but you need to go easy in the snow regardless of RWD, FWD, AWD.

I've also experienced sensors acting funky in the snow at times with one of my past cars. Not sure why.

 

[Catfish]

Yeah if I give it heavy throttle I will fish tail, but you need to go easy in the snow regardless of RWD, FWD, AWD.

Agree totally. The AWD systems are designed to provide more stability for the car adn help transfer more power to the road.

They are not design to take care of the driver that wants to floor it in the snow/ice.
I am not saying that is what is happening here but that is just asking for trouble if it is...

 

[Vert]

You need TERMINATED for saying that. Lol

 

[XenaLives]

Garbage in Garbage out

I think your confused on what AI is and just smart programming. AI learns and creates its own 'thoughts' outside of what it's programmed to 'think'. Traction control, stability control, magnetic suspension, even the radio is just software designed to react a certain way when the programming criteria is met. It's smart in that way but not AI. Please stop with this so we can focus on the tasks at hand since your credibility gets smaller and smaller , when your conspiracy theory takes over.

With AI apps the garbage in garbage out computer axiom still applies. If sufficient data is not collected and algos developed to control performance issues you have garbage out... which is an AI fail.

 

[Cobra99]

With AI apps the garbage in garbage out computer axiom still applies. If sufficient data is not collected and algos developed to control performance issues you have garbage out... which is an AI fail.

Don't think the issues we're seeing is a GIGO issue and more of a bug IMHO. How would I know? Just about 20 years working as a Software Developer, Data Manager and System Architect.


I also have a feeling of déjà vu when I’m speaking with you.

 

[G82FS]

I also have a feeling of déjà vu when I’m speaking with you.[/FONT][/COLOR]

I got that feeling as well...

 

[yellingdog]

@Franti,

Do you have anything plugged into your OBD-II port? I know from first-hand experience that disrupting the CAN1 network will disable traction control, stability control, and AWD functionality.

 

[Ricochet]

it sounds like some serious EMF's being generated LOL

 

[cockerdogs]

Read these if you're interested in AI. You should be, it will change humanity and humans within your lifetime or your kids. The first link is to the bad news. The second link is to a realistic view. It's a long read, but meant for anyone to read.


https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-ai-revolution-the-road-to-superintelligence-823279599

The Artificial Intelligence Revolution: Part 2 - Wait But Why

 

[dshaf97]

So here's the deal with this issue. On every startup the ABS module has to learn where straight-ahead is. There is a certain criteria for how a vehicle has to learn center-position and it takes a certain amount of time to do so. If the driver engages in some activity that requires an ESC/TSC intervention before the ABS module has a chance to learn where straight ahead is, then ABS will assume that the car is broken and light up a bunch of lights.

On a full key cycle, the lights should go away and all capability should return. If you quickly turned the vehicle off and back on, the ABS module may have stayed on and the error may have persisted.