[Inspidship]

Howdy folks, I saw a few posts regarding alignment but had some additional questions and didn’t want to try to revive an old thread.
I jus got my alignment done today after installing new front control arms, and it seems to be much tighter steering wise, but taking a look at the spec sheet the camber numbers caught my attention.
Left front is at -1.7, and right front is at -.4. Seems to be a huge difference, one being near the limit, and the other comfortable within the limit.
I like to drive the car, but I don’t like to buy tires 💰
I assume this will cause premature inner tire wear as I’ve started to see, however I’m unsure if it will affect handling, and if there is a widely accepted and safe way to fix it. Thanks!

 

[ColoradoGuy]

Howdy folks, I saw a few posts regarding alignment but had some additional questions and didn’t want to try to revive an old thread.
I jus got my alignment done today after installing new front control arms, and it seems to be much tighter steering wise, but taking a look at the spec sheet the camber numbers caught my attention.
Left front is at -1.7, and right front is at -.4. Seems to be a huge difference, one being near the limit, and the other comfortable within the limit.
I like to drive the car, but I don’t like to buy tires 💰
I assume this will cause premature inner tire wear as I’ve started to see, however I’m unsure if it will affect handling, and if there is a widely accepted and safe way to fix it. Thanks!
View attachment 30908

Here's a probably dumb comment - the heading on the report shows Front Wheel Drive (Modified Specification). The Sport is AWD. Are you pretty sure the used the right spec's? I am ignorant about alignments, so like I said, this may be a dumb observation.

 

[Inspidship]

Here's a probably dumb comment - the heading on the report shows Front Wheel Drive (Modified Specification). The Sport is AWD. Are you pretty sure the used the right spec's? I am ignorant about alignments, so like I said, this may be a dumb observation.

I am equally clueless on alignments. I’d assume it’s somewhat similar because the platform is at least similar in the front, but could be wrong.

 

[Skylinedan 1]

Looks like a fifth grader did that alignment, ok so where do I start, LOL. 1st off the rear looks good, but the front needs more attention. The cradle needs shifted to the right, the bolts that hold the strut to the knuckle need to be loosened and the top of the tires needs to go out. Caster is backwards, needs more on the right than the left, about 3 tenths more. This keeps it up on the crown, other wise it will want to fall off the road ( pull or drift right ), and toe could be closer to each other. Basically this thing should drive like a three legged mule, I'd be pissed off if some shop gave me a print out and it looked like that one, sure glad I do my own.

 

[Skylinedan 1]

Also you'll notice where it says ( modified Specification ) that's because who ever did it went in to the specs, and changed the tolerances making them wider. You do that so that the end result gives you all green boxes. Here's a screen shot of my currant alignment, with 3.0 caster on the left and 3.5 on the right it tends to drift left a bit. I,ll go back later and pull some out of the right side to correct that. When I did it, I knew it would more than likely go to the left a bit, but it really doesn't drive bad at all.

 

[Inspidship]

I see. I won’t say I understood all of that but I’ve been doing some more research. I got a lifetime alignment at this Firestone near me because I planned on getting lowering springs and needing another alignment. I guess I’ll be making another appt to see if they can get it closer to what it should be. Note, I have no real clue what it should drive like, and I don’t do much more than drive it around back roads a little hard.
regarding strut to knuckle, are those not fixed position deals?

 

[OX1]

These where my numbers. Ignore the yellow boxes, as I my software only goes to 2013.

I reduced rear camber as I corded a rear tire on the inside. Some could argue that I didn't rotate enough (or these tires are flat out shot).
Possible, but at $320 each for tires, can't chance it again.

I agree the OP's front cross camber (the difference in camber) is effed up.
Down side for our cars is there is no true factory adjustment for camber or caster in the front.
You are limited to loosening parts and trying to get some adjustment, or as mentioned even
"racking" or "tweaking" the front subframe.

All that said, I would talk to whoever did the alignment and ask them is they loosened lower struts bolts or inner bolts for lower control arms, to try and
get better camber numbers in front? If they have done that, you could then ask about trying to tweak subframe (be prepared for resistance, as they probably won't
want to do it).

If they have done all that, you might just have a car that was built a bit hosed up. It happens. Worst case, you can many times egg out one of the holes on the strut mount, and get some camber adjustment that way. They do make kits for many cars that have an eccentric bolt, that helps hold the strut bolt in place after egging it out. I've always just tightened the crap out of that strut bolt, and never had a problem with just bolt torque induced friction holding everything together without slip.

And unlike Sky (and many who do alignments), I prefer my caster even or even slightly higher on the drivers side. I'd rather have NO pull from the left crown in the fast lane, where the higher speed usually cause more pull, and live with any pull in town from the right crown, at half the speed or less. It's personal preference, but things happen much faster at highway speeds, so I'd rather my car go straight there (or closer, anyway), than in town. Most people notice the pull more in town, so alignment guys set it up so customers won't feel that.

 

[Skylinedan 1]

I see. I won’t say I understood all of that but I’ve been doing some more research. I got a lifetime alignment at this Firestone near me because I planned on getting lowering springs and needing another alignment. I guess I’ll be making another appt to see if they can get it closer to what it should be. Note, I have no real clue what it should drive like, and I don’t do much more than drive it around back roads a little hard.
regarding strut to knuckle, are those not fixed position deals?

No, you loosen the two bolts, and there's some movement there. Enough to make a difference, if you can't get it just loosening the bolts, I take a die grinder and hog out the holes enough to get me what I need far as movement goes, doesn't need much either.

 

[Skylinedan 1]

These where my numbers. Ignore the yellow boxes, as I my software only goes to 2013.

I reduced rear camber as I corded a rear tire on the inside. Some could argue that I didn't rotate enough (or these tires are flat out shot).
Possible, but at $320 each for tires, can't chance it again.

I agree the OP's front cross camber (the difference in camber) is effed up.
Down side for our cars is there is no true factory adjustment for camber or caster in the front.
You are limited to loosening parts and trying to get some adjustment, or as mentioned even
"racking" or "tweaking" the front subframe.

All that said, I would talk to whoever did the alignment and ask them is they loosened lower struts bolts or inner bolts for lower control arms, to try and
get better camber numbers in front? If they have done that, you could then ask about trying to tweak subframe (be prepared for resistance, as they probably won't
want to do it).

If they have done all that, you might just have a car that was built a bit hosed up. It happens. Worst case, you can many times egg out one of the holes on the strut mount, and get some camber adjustment that way. They do make kits for many cars that have an eccentric bolt, that helps hold the strut bolt in place after egging it out. I've always just tightened the crap out of that strut bolt, and never had a problem with just bolt torque induced friction holding everything together without slip.

And unlike Sky (and many who do alignments), I prefer my caster even or even slightly higher on the drivers side. I'd rather have NO pull from the left crown in the fast lane, where the higher speed usually cause more pull, and live with any pull in town from the right crown, at half the speed or less. It's personal preference, but things happen much faster at highway speeds, so I'd rather my car go straight there (or closer, anyway), than in town. Most people notice the pull more in town, so alignment guys set it up so customers won't feel that.

These where my numbers. Ignore the yellow boxes, as I my software only goes to 2013.

I reduced rear camber as I corded a rear tire on the inside. Some could argue that I didn't rotate enough (or these tires are flat out shot).
Possible, but at $320 each for tires, can't chance it again.

I agree the OP's front cross camber (the difference in camber) is effed up.
Down side for our cars is there is no true factory adjustment for camber or caster in the front.
You are limited to loosening parts and trying to get some adjustment, or as mentioned even
"racking" or "tweaking" the front subframe.

All that said, I would talk to whoever did the alignment and ask them is they loosened lower struts bolts or inner bolts for lower control arms, to try and
get better camber numbers in front? If they have done that, you could then ask about trying to tweak subframe (be prepared for resistance, as they probably won't
want to do it).

If they have done all that, you might just have a car that was built a bit hosed up. It happens. Worst case, you can many times egg out one of the holes on the strut mount, and get some camber adjustment that way. They do make kits for many cars that have an eccentric bolt, that helps hold the strut bolt in place after egging it out. I've always just tightened the crap out of that strut bolt, and never had a problem with just bolt torque induced friction holding everything together without slip.

And unlike Sky (and many who do alignments), I prefer my caster even or even slightly higher on the drivers side. I'd rather have NO pull from the left crown in the fast lane, where the higher speed usually cause more pull, and live with any pull in town from the right crown, at half the speed or less. It's personal preference, but things happen much faster at highway speeds, so I'd rather my car go straight there (or closer, anyway), than in town. Most people notice the pull more in town, so alignment guys set it up so customers won't feel that.

 

[Skylinedan 1]

We have a place that sends us some that they can't get right, tell us it's got frame damage or some other lame excuse. There are four bolts that hold the front cross member to the body, you loosen those and you'll be able to move it around quite a bit, on top of the bolts for the lower control arms. The two in the back being the ones that give you the most movement, front one doesn't do whole lot, so I never mess with it. Thing to keep in mind is, it doesn't take a lot to change the numbers on the screen. Granted that also is dependent on the make n model, some are harder than others and some are to easy. I've been doing alignments for over 25 years, after a while you can do them in your sleep.

 

[Inspidship]

interesting. I need to learn up on my suspension and alignment information. I think I mentioned I replaced the control arms, first time doing it on a vehicle this new and first with macp struts. I could have screwed something up there but I’m gonna take it back to the shop after I get back from college next and see what they can do/if they can level w me and actually do a good job. It wasn’t cheap so I expect decent enough work I guess. Although can’t expect much out of these chain auto shops.

 

[OX1]

Was there a comment, or you liked what I wrote so much, you just quoted it twice, LOL!!!

 

[ColoradoGuy]

Also you'll notice where it says ( modified Specification ) that's because who ever did it went in to the specs, and changed the tolerances making them wider. You do that so that the end result gives you all green boxes. Here's a screen shot of my currant alignment, with 3.0 caster on the left and 3.5 on the right it tends to drift left a bit. I,ll go back later and pull some out of the right side to correct that. When I did it, I knew it would more than likely go to the left a bit, but it really doesn't drive bad at all.

That is a great little piece of information about Modified Specification. Thank you for sharing it!

 

[Inspidship]

I suppose I should ask before I think to schedule anything, what should all the goal numbers be on the sheet? As a reference for me to relay to the shop. Thanks folks!

 

[Skylinedan 1]

If the box is green it just means it's within tolerance, What I shoot for is close to spec, but if I can't get that, I'll at least try to get both sides the same far as camber n toe goes. Thing about caster is, we see a lot of cars that are backwards, but still go straight down the road, Honda being the big one. I also know what works and what doesn't, take a late model F 150 they want .5 degrees more on the right, but that's to much. I'll set them at .2 to.3 degrees more than the left so they go straight. One other thing I see with other manufactures is they will call for more camber on one side than the other, I think they figure no mater what, you'll have a driver in the seat at the least. Must figure were all a bunch of lard azzes, lol.

 

[Inspidship]

If the box is green it just means it's within tolerance, What I shoot for is close to spec, but if I can't get that, I'll at least try to get both sides the same far as camber n toe goes. Thing about caster is, we see a lot of cars that are backwards, but still go straight down the road, Honda being the big one. I also know what works and what doesn't, take a late model F 150 they want .5 degrees more on the right, but that's to much. I'll set them at .2 to.3 degrees more than the left so they go straight. One other thing I see with other manufactures is they will call for more camber on one side than the other, I think they figure no mater what, you'll have a driver in the seat at the least. Must figure were all a bunch of lard azzes, lol.

Got another quick question, seems you know your way around this sorta stuff. I’ve had play in my steering wheel for a while now, just enough that on the highway it’s kind of annoying to constantly re adjust. I’ve replaced control arms and outer tie rod ends because I figured that’s the first to go and it’s approaching 85k miles. Still have play. What are the chances it’s due to the alignment or is it more likely to be a different part failing. Thanks!

 

[Skylinedan 1]

Check the inner tie rods, but those usually last well over 100,000 miles. Though that depends on other factors, pot holes, hitting curbs.

 

[OX1]

Check the inner tie rods, but those usually last well over 100,000 miles. Though that depends on other factors, pot holes, hitting curbs.

Do these new electric racks have bushings? I've been in there, replacing my front sway bar bushings for the 3rd time now (UGH!!), but never
really looked at the rack mount.

 

[Flew]

Do these new electric racks have bushings? I've been in there, replacing my front sway bar bushings for the 3rd time now (UGH!!), but never
really looked at the rack mount.

I didn't see any bushings when I unbolted my rack when doing the Steeda swaybar.
Just the rack casting to the subframe.
Were your (3) sets stock?
My polyurethane bushings are getting squeaky again. Hopefully, I can get them before they are excessively worn.
Prothane lasts me 2 years.

 

[OX1]

I didn't see any bushings when I unbolted my rack when doing the Steeda swaybar.
Just the rack casting to the subframe.
Were your (3) sets stock?
My polyurethane bushings are getting squeaky again. Hopefully, I can get them before they are excessively worn.
Prothane lasts me 2 years.

No, they are Steeda for their front bar, which are just reboxed from someone else. I even added "grease" fittings and got a dedicated
grease gun with sway bar "grease" (I drilled hole through bushing so grease could enter). Still wearing them out every 1-2 years.
I just bought 3 more sets, at least they were cheap.