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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys I know everyone has been chomping at the bit to know more about these, so here we go! The wait was more than worth it! I just got done doing some test pulls using the V-box. Test pulls were performed on the exact same road going the same direction each time and launching at the same rpm as when I tested the Garrett and Vibrant intercooler cores. I have not done anything to the car since then except the 3" DP's. The car is an animal now and is having major traction issues in first gear which is why the 0-60 times aren't quite as impressive as the 0-100 times. Driving around town the engine power band is much improved, there is much more power on demand and barely any throttle is used to get going fast quickly. As far as exhaust note/tone there is a subtle difference, it sounds more throaty and deep but nothing that the wife will notice(my car is on completely stock ex other than DPs). Obviously with no cats, there will be a CEL that comes on as the PCM knows they are missing as that is the whole point of the rear o2 sensors. There are ways around this but Im not going to cover that as most of you already know what to do. With that said these are for off road/race use only!


I did 3 pulls so we can get an average of the gains. 0-60mph was 4.7,4.7, and 4.8 seconds. 0-100mph was 10.7, 10.8, and 10.9 seconds. That gives and average of 4.73 0-60 and 10.8 0-100! If you remember from the intercooler test the car ran 4.96 0-60 and 11.53 0-100 on average. So thats a gain of .23 seconds 0-60 and .73 seconds 0-100!!!!!!!!!!!

According to Wallace racing ET/Hp calculator a drop of 7 tenths in quarter mile is a ~70 hp gain!!!



So now onto the downpipes themselves, they are made of T304 stainless steel made in Canada and mandrel bent in the USA. A thick half inch stainlees steel 2 bolt flange is used where they mount to the turbos. 6" long stainless steel flex joints are used as well as 2 o2 sensor bungs located in in the factory location. Everything is hand TIG welded and back purged to get the strongest weld possible.


Price is going to be $1199 + shipping
Ceramic coating will be available in silver or black for additional charge.



Here is some pictures of the downpipes next to stock, installed and V-box results:












 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
As far as taking orders Im ready but I will not be able to get these built and shipped out before probably mid January as I still need to build a fixture to copy the downpipes.


BTW removing the stock downpipes is a HUGE PITA!!!!! I would not even attempt to do these without a lift and lots of special mechanics tools. I would highly recommend having a shop do the install.
 

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Where is the absolute worst spot to get at?
 

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I know you do good work but not buying 70 hp for DP's....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I know you do good work but not buying 70 hp for DP's....
Not uncommon for other twin turbo cars to gain 60+ hp from catless downpipes. You cannot compare what f150 guys are seeing from DP's as their stock downpipes are much better than on the FS. Ford's bread and butter is the f150 everything on them is better and tougher so less power to be gained.

You guys can believe what you want, but the proof is in the v-box times. The car went 7+ tenths faster to 100 mph. To do that there has to be a huge power gain. I drive fast cars every day and Im telling you there is an incredible difference in the top end power. On top of that the turbos spool much faster.

I am only trying to help out the FS community, Im not here to fluff the numbers hoping that you guys will buy my stuff more easily. I have more work than I can keep up with at my shop. This is just something I do on the side because I like to make things. I have absolutely no reason to lie to you guys. If I was going to do that I would have just posted up some BS gains and called it good. But what did I do? I spent the time to actually test the car using a very accurate device; the V-box. If the track was still open here I would have run the car in the quarter to see what the gains are, but we will have to wait till spring for that.

I wasnt able to drive my car for 7 days while I took it apart to make these DPs. The whole thing was VERY far from easy, and I do this kind of stuff all the time. Talk about taking one for the team. In the back of my head I was hoping that they would make a difference cause it would have been a huge waste of time and money, but I knew that at least we could say we tried. Luckily they are worth the trouble. If they werent I would have said so in a heart beat.
 

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Darkstar,

You need to run your car at a 1/4 mile track at sea level with all your mods, and show us what it can do.

Holy crap, it should be a terror!

Low 12's? High 11's???
 

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I think all the numbers are there to enable people to do their own hp estimates. Choose your algorithm and have at it. cockerdogs
 

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Does the MKZ have larger turbos than the Sport? I guess my concern would be if the Sport can handle the extra power long term without issue.


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Nice! I think that is more than a fair asking price for DPs! Will be purchasing soon!


Seriously?! After searching for downpipes for several other turbo charged vehicles (Ford and non ford) on average I'd say they're $700 for good name brand stuff. $1200 is pretty much outrageous.

I'm thankful for the work darkstar has put in, but I'm either gonna have to wait until the price comes down or another set is on the market for less.


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3" Stainless Steel Cat-less downpipes

When I bought a catted downpipe for my mustang ecoboost, I paid $486.10 for a single pipe. So a pair of them would have been $972.20. Granted this was using a discount code and I would have had to pay $1035 for a pair of them.

The cat’s usually make a $100 difference a piece so I could see $1200 for a high flow cat version and $1000 without them.

That’s still a little higher than my comparison but we are talking about a supply and demand situation here lol.

One of the issues is that even if you have the high flow car version, most shops around me won’t touch it unless you trailer the car since it will still be considered off road use.

I’ll definitely be watching this option for the future and hopefully after you build a form for them, the price will drop since you won’t have a much time invested into each part.

Thanx for your contribution to the community and yeah... I’ve been eyeballing your Intercooler already lol


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I know you do good work but not buying 70 hp for DP's....
I'd wait for a Sport member here to try them and see.

Seriously?! After searching for downpipes for several other turbo charged vehicles (Ford and non ford) on average I'd say they're $700 for good name brand stuff. $1200 is pretty much outrageous.

I'm thankful for the work Darkstar has put in, but I'm either gonna have to wait until the price comes down or another set is on the market for less.

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When I bought a catted downpipe for my mustang ecoboost, I paid $486.10 for a single pipe. So a pair of them would have been $972.20. Granted this was using a discount code and I would have had to pay $1035 for a pair of them.

The cat’s usually make a $100 difference a piece so I could see $1200 for a high flow cat version and $1000 without them.

That’s still a little higher than my comparison but we are talking about a supply and demand situation here lol.

One of the issues is that even if you have the high flow car version, most shops around me won’t touch it unless you trailer the car since it will still be considered off road use.

I’ll definitely be watching this option for the future and hopefully after you build a form for them, the price will drop since you won’t have a much time invested into each part.

Thanx for your contribution to the community and yeah... I’ve been eyeballing your Intercooler already lol


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I've made my own stainless intake and exh pipes, what a PIA.
Just fitment is days or weeks even. Then you have to make jigs
that allow repeat-ability if you are going to sell to others that
expect perfect fit. This is low volume, high effort, and most
importantly, low income (vs time spent) parts here.

We aren't talking about a high volume exhaust manufacturer
that can amortize the cost of R & D over even 100 pieces, let
alone 1000's like an ecoboost stang.

I look at it this way. Add about 5 grand in parts to this car
(intake, tuner, tune, sway bars, wheels/tires, IC, DP's)
for me, that would be about 32K total, and it will come real
close in perf to cars costing 60 grand. Huge bargain
 

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I work in manufacturing; I fully understand engineering, materials and fabrication, and labor costs, as well as validation and commissioning.

I often am the one purchasing these things for our department.

I do not believe the cost is justified. But that's just one man's opinion.

Again, hats off to darkstar for the work. But I wonder why he can make an RMM that is at market value (even at such low volume with R&D costs, jig, materials and fabrication) but his downpipes and intercoolers are what I would consider to be well above market value.

I'm all for capitalism, but I choose to hold out for now.


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If I didn’t have a 8/16 build date I’d buy these as soon as they are ready. I think I’ll wait though to see if I have one of the duds first
 

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I would like to see a before and after dyno to justify his claims; as I said he does good work and has good products, based on 25+ years of modifying various cars gaining 70 hp with just DP is something I can't believe until I see another way of proving it.

Add in what he said about the install being a PITA, dealing with possible state inspections and also dealing with the not so great exahust smells that removing the cat creates...well...anyway...
 
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Very cool darkstar! I applaud you for taking one for the team. Don't worry about the haters. Either a person can or can't rationalize the cost and that is their personal situation. I know it's not in the cards for me, but I can dream that someday it will be! I'm in to see who picks one up and can't wait to hear how your car does in the spring on the track! Kudos again and thanks for your contributions to our group.
 

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Very cool darkstar! I applaud you for taking one for the team. Don't worry about the haters. Either a person can or can't rationalize the cost and that is their personal situation. I know it's not in the cards for me, but I can dream that someday it will be! I'm in to see who picks one up and can't wait to hear how your car does in the spring on the track! Kudos again and thanks for your contributions to our group.


Look, I'm not hating, I'm giving him props. I disagree with his pricing structure, that's all.

H chooses to set his price where it is and I choose not to buy it.

Again, capitalism


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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Seriously?! After searching for downpipes for several other turbo charged vehicles (Ford and non ford) on average I'd say they're $700 for good name brand stuff. $1200 is pretty much outrageous.

I'm thankful for the work darkstar has put in, but I'm either gonna have to wait until the price comes down or another set is on the market for less.


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Since you seem to know so much about how to make cheap stainless exhaust, why dont you do some research and add up the price of all the materials needed to make these. You will need t304 stainless mandrel bends, 6) 45* bends, 4) 90* bends, some straight pipe, 2) 3" stainless flex sections, some 60mm pipe that has to be adapted/expanded up to 3", 2) stainless steel half inch thick flanges and 4) 02 sensor bungs. On top of that you will need several pie cuts to adapt the weird angles. Oh and dont forget you will need a Tig welder, at least one band saw, years of skills, clamps, welding materials, and lots of other tools. Add this up plus the 25+ hours of labor to cut, fit, sand, and weld everything together and you will see how the price is what it is.
 

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Since you seem to know so much about how to make cheap stainless exhaust, why dont you do some research and add up the price of all the materials needed to make these. You will need t304 stainless mandrel bends, 6) 45* bends, 4) 90* bends, some straight pipe, 2) 3" stainless flex sections, some 60mm pipe that has to be adapted/expanded up to 3", 2) stainless steel half inch thick flanges and 4) 02 sensor bungs. On top of that you will need several pie cuts to adapt the weird angles. Oh and dont forget you will need a Tig welder, at least one band saw, years of skills, clamps, welding materials, and lots of other tools. Add this up plus the 25+ hours of labor to cut, fit, sand, and weld everything together and you will see how the price is what it is.


Hold on now. Don't get upset with me about this, and don't act like all of this is new operating costs either.

You obviously do lots of work with this type of stuff so you should have a wholesale account with your materials supplier. Materials can't be more than $400 RETAIL. More like $250 wholesale.

Unless you have people working for you your overhead is almost $0, and from the sound of it you're a one man outfit.

You're not "charging" yourself ~$25 per hour for welding, and I can see how the first one took 25 hours but with a jig it shouldn't take more than, lets high ball it at 4 hours labor (should be more than enough for such a seasoned welder). So we'll call that another $100. Call it another $100 for welding wire, sandpaper etc., and we'll even throw another $125 per unit in for R&D, so you have $725 in this if you pay full retail for materials and "pay" yourself for the work. Now let's say your company has to turn a profit, ok fine, $850-900.

ABSOLUTE max should be $900, and that's if you aren't buying wholesale parts and you're paying yourself on top of turning a profit for your company.

Again, props to you for the work, but I'll wait until the price comes down or another set comes on the market.


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