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18 VS 19 Ford Fusion sport

  • 18 sport

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Oh, Ill be the first one to warn people about tuning and warranties since I also do tune.
 

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Let's not forget that the 2019's also get LED puddle lights from the factory and a rear defuser. Calling the 2019 "DE contented" is just not true and that term needs to stop being used.
Ford switched to LED puddle lights on 2019 models, it's cheaper to produce one part than two versions. The 2019's absolutely are decontented. The rear "diffuser" is just a valance where they don't have to use any paint.

If LED puddle lights is what you're worried about, you can install '19 Edge puddle lamps for $12 each.
 
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Not to get off-topic here, but I just wanted to clear some things up from this:

It is done as a software upgrade using the third party supplied programming files and instructions.
This is not true. Cyanlabs is a 3rd-party tool, many who know what they're actually doing, myself included (I don't mean to sound arrogant there!), STRONGLY recommend against downloading random 3rd party tools to do this, such as the Cyanlabs tool.

The proper way to upgrade from SYNC v3.0 to v3.3+ is to simply put the official (leaked, but official and digitally signed by FoMoCo) on a USB, let it run like any SYNC update, and then plug in another USB with official SYNC files. And ALL files should be sourced straight from Ford (as BBF said, I also strongly recommend not getting your files from unofficial foreign servers). That's all!


And there are almost always some lost, or no longer functioning correctly [...]
This has to do with people upgrading their vehicles modules and not knowing what they're doing. There is nothing that "no longer functions correctly" when upgrading completely and correctly.
 

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Not to get off-topic here, but I just wanted to clear some things up from this:


This is not true. Cyanlabs is a 3rd-party tool, many who know what they're actually doing, myself included (I don't mean to sound arrogant there!), STRONGLY recommend against downloading random 3rd party tools to do this, such as the Cyanlabs tool.

The proper way to upgrade from SYNC v3.0 to v3.3+ is to simply put the official (leaked, but official and digitally signed by FoMoCo) on a USB, let it run like any SYNC update, and then plug in another USB with official SYNC files. And ALL files should be sourced straight from Ford (as BBF said, I also strongly recommend not getting your files from unofficial foreign servers). That's all!



This has to do with people upgrading their vehicles modules and not knowing what they're doing. There is nothing that "no longer functions correctly" when upgrading completely and correctly.
Hi DaMiFo. Everything I stated, if read correctly, is true. We have had similar conversations before, and once again, you misread what I was stating...First, I also STRONGLY recommend against downloading and using these third party software tools, like CyanLabs. How you read otherwise, I have no idea.

Once again, my only concern is that my fellow forum members here know the warranty ramifications of doing these non-factory "upgrades" from SYNC 3 to SYNC 3.4. And any update not directly downloaded from the Ford or Lincoln SYNC update websites, using our own VIN, is "non-factory", and will be easy for a Ford/Lincoln Dealer to uncover, if our car is brought in for service and warranty work. In fact, they specifically look for these modifications when warranty claims are involved.

And even the upgrade you say is the "proper way to upgrade from SYNC v3.0 to v3.3+ is to simply put the official (leaked, but official and digitally signed by FoMoCo)" will still jeopardize a Fusion Owners 3 year/36,000 mile New Vehicle Warranty (and a full ESP Plan) for any warranty claims even remotely connected to SYNC. So that means SYNC/Audio/Climate Control/electronics/electrical issues etc. etc.

And there is no "proper way to upgrade from SYNC v3.0 to v3.3+..." which will not threaten the 3 year/36,000 mile New Vehicle Warranty. Any vehicle owner who upgrades their SYNC 3.0 system to SYNC 3.3+ must do it with the complete understanding that any associated warranty claims will be denied, and then hope for the best. Once they understand that, it is none of my business.

And yes, there are functions that are almost always lost, if not immediately, then after a period of time. This is because the SYNC 3.0 hardware is not fully capable of supporting SYNC 3.4. The best analogy is that the SYNC 3.0 software will eventually begin to fail, due to being overloaded by SYNC 3.4. Similarly to "overclocking" a computer. And then...POOF...no warranty coverage.

Put all the "Do it this way", "No, don't do it that way, do it this way...", "digitally signed" mumbo-jumbo stuff aside. Because all that does is make some owners think it will not affect their warranty, when it certainly will.
I personally do not care how a non-factory upgrade from SYNC 3 to SYNC 3.3+ is performed. It will still put the New Vehicle Warranty in jeopardy. That is not debatable.

That is all I am trying to let owners who care about their warranties know. The truth about how it will affect their warranty. That is all I am trying to get across to people.

I am not sure why that is so hard to understand for some. And not sure why so much time needs to be spent on the obvious warranty ramifications (I also do not mean to sound arrogant there).

Good luck.
 

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I will not put aside facts to please those who don't understand what "mumbo jumbo" I am talking about. I provided corrected information on a topic I am knowledge in for others who need it, and they can do so at their own risk. Simple as that.

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These conversations will be less of an issue in another year or two, I imagine, because we're getting to a point where a lot of these cars are now outside of the full primary warranty, and the ones that aren't will be soon. There is still the extended warranty (for those who purchased that), but they'd have to be under an extended warranty that actually covered more than just powertrain for most of these conversations to be relevant, once that primary warranty is over. I say this realizing that we're not there yet for all of these cars, but for many, we are.

I think the points about the warranty are well taken, but I also think the points @DaMiFo made about the best way to perform the upgrade (for those who choose to do so) are important. The reason is simply that there are a number of folks who, after considering all the ramifications, decide that an upgrade to a higher Sync version is the best option for them, personally, and decide to move forward with it. If they do, they should be provided the best possible information about how to do so. That's an important purpose of this forum. This forum is not just a place for people to find official information from Ford (although references to those kinds of information are certainly welcome, and very valuable!). It is also, more so than most car forums, a true enthusiast forum. People who really love our performance sedans come here. We want technical information, along with stories, racing info, meetup information, all kinds of things. But that technical info about how to do things that aren't officially supported is a key part of an enthusiast forum like this.

Nobody who cares about the warranty for anything at all connected to Sync (which is quite a few systems) should do the upgrade, but if you make the decision to move forward, I think it's important that we have that information available. Sharing info about unsupported mods is a huge part of the experience here.
 

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@Engineer I couldn't have said that better myself! Well said!

As an example to your post - my '14 edge Sport is running an APIM 2 generations ahead of what the platform was meant to have. I have no warranty to worry about and a desire to make it my own in a way I know. I wish I had all the info at the time, would have saved me a LOT of learning and tinkering time (tho I did enjoy it more).

Heck, most if not all '17 Sports are out of their B2B warranty at this point now that I think about it.

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These conversations will be less of an issue in another year or two, I imagine, because we're getting to a point where a lot of these cars are now outside of the full primary warranty, and the ones that aren't will be soon. There is still the extended warranty (for those who purchased that), but they'd have to be under an extended warranty that actually covered more than just powertrain for most of these conversations to be relevant, once that primary warranty is over. I say this realizing that we're not there yet for all of these cars, but for many, we are.

I think the points about the warranty are well taken, but I also think the points @DaMiFo made about the best way to perform the upgrade (for those who choose to do so) are important. The reason is simply that there are a number of folks who, after considering all the ramifications, decide that an upgrade to a higher Sync version is the best option for them, personally, and decide to move forward with it. If they do, they should be provided the best possible information about how to do so. That's an important purpose of this forum. This forum is not just a place for people to find official information from Ford (although references to those kinds of information are certainly welcome, and very valuable!). It is also, more so than most car forums, a true enthusiast forum. People who really love our performance sedans come here. We want technical information, along with stories, racing info, meetup information, all kinds of things. But that technical info about how to do things that aren't officially supported is a key part of an enthusiast forum like this.

Nobody who cares about the warranty for anything at all connected to Sync (which is quite a few systems) should do the upgrade, but if you make the decision to move forward, I think it's important that we have that information available. Sharing info about unsupported mods is a huge part of the experience here.
Hi Engineer. I also agree with most all you are saying. That is why I always point out and make perfectly clear that I am not telling anyone what to do with their car, and not telling anyone not to perform this SYNC upgrade/modification (or any modification). Unless they care about their warranty coverage. I present the facts and move on (when allowed to...lol). Then everyone is free to do as we please.

So I did not tell DaMiFo not to present his thoughts. I simply corrected a major misrepresentation of what I said. It's water under the bridge, but lets not just skim over that.

And it is correct that many 2017 Fusions are out of warranty. And even some 2018's and 19's due to mileage. And many are not. So I take everyone's position/model year etc. into consideration, not only what I happen to own.

And new members sign up every day. So while some of us may know these warranty issues and some are tired of hearing them, the new members may not be. And therefore, it is important to make the information known when the conversation arises again. And that should not bother anyone, for any reason.

There is a reason I first posted about the warranty ramifications in this thread. As usual, to correct some accidentally incorrect information. Then the conversation begins another case of "Mission Creep", and we wind up here. If one re-reads, perhaps it will be better understood next time.

So as I stated repeatedly, I am not telling others not to modify their cars. It is none of my business. Just as me telling others about the warranty ramifications should not bother anyone else.

EDIT- And in my defense, I will also add that my posts are not "...official information from Ford". I actually found that statement to be a little unnecessarily dismissive (although I also realize you probably did not mean it that way, due to all my prior interactions with you). On the contrary, my posts are real life, what will happen if...freaking common sense. lol

I take the time to carefully read and understand the posts and motivations of others. I simply ask that others extend me the same courtesy.

So as usual, no hard feelings and let's move on.

Good luck guys.
 
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Back in the early ‘80s I took a Dale Carnegie “how to win friends and influence people”course. There I met a Russian expatriate who had fled to the U.S. He was very intelligent and articulate, some kind of nuclear physicist or engineer IIRC. During introductions we all had to explain why we were there. He told a story of trying and failing to fit into the U.S. scientific community and being sent to the course by his employer. In Russia, he said, when a colleague declares a theory or hypothesis, all of his coworkers jump on his idea like a pack of dogs on a three-legged cat. They call him an idiot or accuse him of thinking like a child; really harsh and personal stuff! He was struggling with the cordiality of the U.S. culture, having leaped to criticize a few colleagues before being castigated for his demeanor. But he remained unapologetic for the outcome of the Russian way. He said that any idea that has endured the direct challenge of many opposing viewpoints is the most likely to be the correct idea.
IMO - if we really want to get to the right answers, it’s good to beat up the topic until it tells us the truth.

“Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence” - Vince Lombardi
 
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^^^^^ Yup ^^^^^
 

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2019 > 2018 > 2017 :)
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Back to the OP.....

I'll repeat what I said earlier.
"Assuming there is truly nothing wrong with the 2019, it is by far the better deal. All options included, less miles, a year newer (less depreciation), and less money to boot!"
 
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And to think, all this started over, "Which of these two cars would you recommend".
 

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But around here we love talking about certain 'trigger' topics!

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I’d recommend the KIA Stinger GT AWD…
41102D1B-7554-45CE-B42C-B0C0949A7B15.jpeg
 

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I will not put aside facts to please those who don't understand what "mumbo jumbo" I am talking about. I provided corrected information on a topic I am knowledge in for others who need it, and they can do so at their own risk. Simple as that.

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And I explain the risks, so skip the self righteous indignation and arrogant, passive aggressive insults. You "corrected" nothing. You misrepresented what I had previously stated (I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was accidental) then obfuscated and went off on a tangent about a subject I had not even mentioned, as though you were "correcting" something.

And I would have had absolutely no reason to even reply to you earlier, if you had not totally misrepresented my previous posts by making it seem I was endorsing CyanLabs, when I have always done the complete opposite. You still never acknowledged or corrected your major misrepresentation of what I stated about CyanLabs. Why don't you start with that, instead of attacking me to distract?

For the umpteenth time, my only concern in my posts is to let those who care about their warranty know the ramifications of these SYNC 3.0 to 3.4 modifications. For those who do not care about their warranty coverage (such as you), feel free to skip my posts. However, all the information I provided is correct.

And it is "mumbo jumbo" when you try to inject terms like "digitally signed", to make it seem that makes it okay/"safe" to perform these non-factory upgrades with no warranty ramifications. That is what will confuse others into believing it is okay to perform an upgrade with no warranty ramifications. All the rest is certainly "mumbo jumbo" when it comes to warranty ramifications.

So please, stick to the facts and perhaps do not misrepresent what others say. And by the way, if I make a mistake or accidentally misrepresent what another member stated/states, I make It clear I have made a mistake. Even on the multiple forums where I am a Moderator (as you are here), I still behave with common courtesy and correct my mistakes, especially when it involves misrepresenting what others may have stated. On the other hand, you misrepresented what I stated earlier and have instead decided to attack, as opposed to simply correcting your mistake. Then we all could have moved on and let the thread return to its original intent.

I reply now because somehow, I missed your above reply last night. And while I had stated to Engineer it's all water under the bridge and let's move on, your attack and additional misrepresentation that I am somehow trying to quiet or censor you made a reply necessary.

I only became involved in this thread on the third page, when there was some confusion about the differences between "updating" SYNC 3.0 and "upgrading" to SYNC 3.4. And I made no mention of warranties. Then as I mentioned above to "Engineer", "Mission Creep" took over the conversation and warranty ramifications became a valid subject. All the posts are still there to read.

Simple as that.
 

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And it is "mumbo jumbo" when you try to inject terms like "digitally signed", to make it seem that makes it okay/"safe" to perform these non-factory upgrades with no warranty ramifications. That is what will confuse others into believing it is okay to perform an upgrade with no warranty ramifications. All the rest is certainly "mumbo jumbo" when it comes to warranty ramifications.
@bbf2530 I wanted to take a moment and say that I certainly didn't mean to give anyone the impression I was being dismissive of your comments. I never have intentionally done that, nor would I. I always think your input into any forum is very valuable, even if I've seen it before. I realize the value there. I've always appreciated your posts everywhere I've seen them, on this forum as well as others. You know that, but I think it bears repeating, so I'm telling you again.

That said, when @DaMiFo mentions the "digitally signed" aspect of the firmware files, he's not speaking "mumbo jumbo". "Digitally signed" is a technical term with very important meaning to those of us familiar with those technologies. It implies a very, very high mathematical certainty of the data loaded being exactly what was provided by the source, without (if done properly) any realistic chance of that data having been altered. In more layman's terms, it means that at the end of the flash, the code running on the car is exactly the same code as it would be if Ford had provided a valid, supported upgrade path to that same version.

Please understand I'm not saying Ford will support this, or that the warranty won't be impacted (it will). I'm merely stating that DaMiFo is making a very valid and important point here, which is that there is a path to get exactly the same code running that would be running if Ford provided the update, and to do so in a secure way. That is hugely important, to those who care about such things, but aren't concerned about the warranty (either because they're past the warranty period, or because they just are willing to assume that risk).

I think it's very important not to gloss over that, or diminish the value of that kind of information.
 
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@bbf2530 I wanted to take a moment and say that I certainly didn't mean to give anyone the impression I was being dismissive of your comments. I never have intentionally done that, nor would I. I always think your input into any forum is very valuable, even if I've seen it before. I realize the value there. I've always appreciated your posts everywhere I've seen them, on this forum as well as others. You know that, but I think it bears repeating, so I'm telling you again.

That said, when @DaMiFo mentions the "digitally signed" aspect of the firmware files, he's not speaking "mumbo jumbo". "Digitally signed" is a technical term with very important meaning to those of us familiar with those technologies. It implies a very, very high mathematical certainty of the data loaded being exactly what was provided by the source, without (if done properly) any realistic chance of that data having been altered. In more layman's terms, it means that at the end of the flash, the code running on the car is exactly the same code as it would be if Ford had provided a valid, supported upgrade path to that same version.

Please understand I'm not saying Ford will support this, or that the warranty won't be impacted (it will). I'm merely stating that DaMiFo is making a very valid and important point here, which is that there is a path to get exactly the same code running that would be running if Ford provided the update, and to do so in a secure way. That is hugely important, to those who care about such things, but aren't concerned about the warranty (either because they're past the warranty period, or because they just are willing to assume that risk).

I think it's very important not to gloss over that, or diminish the value of that kind of information.
Hi Engineer. I do realize you did not mean to be dismissive. I only thought in the context of the discussion, it felt just "a little" like that and mentioned it with the disclaimer that I did not believe you meant to be. The old "The written word can be misleading because it is hard to read emotion" thing. But I understand what you are saying now, and thank you for saying it.

I completely understand what "digitally signed" means. I would not claim to be tech expert, but am quite familiar with tech and its terms. And at any time I do not understand a term, of any origin, I take the time to look it up (didn't need to in this case though...lol). Nevertheless, thank you for the explanation. ;)

Okay...we pretty much agree on most everything. So I will put it all down in writing and will try to be brief, since my posts can get wordy. 🙃

- Yes, I agree the "digitally signed" information DaMiFo provided is good information for everyone to know. And as you stated, "Especially for those who care about such things, but aren't concerned about the warranty". I have never stated or inferred otherwise. Nor have I tried to stop anyone from stating it.

- Proper context in a conversation is important. My posts try to take into consideration not only those immediately involved, but those who will read it later.
Using terms like "digitally signed" being "safe", in the context it was being used, can confuse those who are less tech savvy or have no tech knowledge at all (see the next point below). To understand what I mean, just go back and read the posts we are discussing, while pretending you don't know what you know about tech and are a tech novice or worse. That was my point about "mumbo jumbo". And if you re-read the part of my post you quoted I think you can see I even explained that.
The term "mumbo jumbo" in that quote (and the post that I originally used it in) was not meant as in insult or dismissal of the information itself, just as a descriptive for what "digitally signed" would mean to those with little to no tech knowledge.

- For those who care about their warranty, installing SYNC 3.4 "digitally signed" software into a SYNC 3.0 vehicle will still lead to warranty claims issues. We all agree on that (hopefully).

- For those who don't care about their warranty (or are out of warranty), installing "digitally signed" SYNC 3.4 software into a SYNC 3.0 vehicle is far "safer" than using CyanLabs etc.

- However, it is still installing SYNC 3.4 software into a SYNC 3.0 system that does not have the proper hardware to support it properly. The loose analogy I made to "overclocking" a computer. Yes, emphasis on "loose", in order to avoid a discussion on the technical definition of "overclocking"...🙃

- Using Cyanlabs or similar third party sites to upgrade from SYNC 3.0 to SYNC 3.4 is a bad idea (in my opinion).

- If you are going to upgrade a SYNC 3.0 vehicle to SYNC 3.4, the "safest", but also most expensive way to do it, is to replace the APIM etc. with the proper SYNC 3.4 hardware/software. For those who do not care about warranty.

- Next "safest" for those who do not care about warranty would be using the "digitally signed" software DaMiFo mentioned and we are now discussing.

- CyanLabs and other more murky third party sites would be the least safest, and advised against by at least several of us.

- Performing any of these SYNC 3.0 to SYNC 3.4 "upgrades" can/will lead to warranty claims issues, and likely claims denials, for anything SYNC related. That means SYNC/Audio/Climate Control and much of the electronic and electrical systems. Anything Ford/Lincoln can even remotely connect to the SYNC modifications.

- Some members are tired of hearing about warranty warnings. But new members sign up all the time and some will not be aware. So it helps to let them know, if/when the appropriate subject arises.

I may have missed something, but hopefully that covers most of what we have been discussing and debating. And I believe that those of us in this discussion probably/hopefully agree on 90% to possibly 100% of those subjects.

I do not wish to argue with anyone. I only want to provide what I consider and hope to be useful information for other members here. As I stated to you previously, I respect and carefully read others posts, and always try to be accurate representing what they state, and what I state. Nor do I attempt to diminish the value of their thoughts/opinions/information. And I simply ask that others treat me with the same courtesy.

I know I promised to be brief. If you take out a lot of the double spacing, it is actually a lot briefer than it looks..😂

Thank you for taking the time to explain things Engineer. I respect both your and DaMiFo's huge contributions to the Fusion Sport Forums and hope my explanations above help to clear some things up.

Good luck.

EDIT- After a re-read, I went back and fixed a few typos and hopefully add a little clarity.
 
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I have the 401A in my 2018. The 2019 looks like a better buy, but a bird in the hand, etc. I would make sure the 2019 is what they say before voting for it. The 2018 is a known quantity since you saw and drove it.
 
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And to think, all this started over, "Which of these two cars would you recommend".
Don't buy either till you check out the Stinger. :) . Just trying to revitalize my Stinger post from a few weeks ago since the Kia obsession has died down a little,
 
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